Public Speaking

#46: Lily Ray

Episode Summary

In this episode, we talk with Lily Ray, SEO Director at Path Interactive.


We discuss:

  • How she grew up in a technology-centric family
  • Learning HTML growing up
  • Attending law school with an interest in politics around the time of the 2008 financial crisis
  • How all of those experiences led her to digital marketing
  • How she eventually found a career in and a passion for SEO
  • Some of her biggest SEO challenges
  • How to build trust with clients
  • Her side hustle as a professional DJ!

And much more!

In the News & Deep Dive

In the news AND our deep dive we again talk about the impact of Coronavirus on the SEO industry, trends that we’re seeing with our clients, and the advice that we’ve been giving during these troubling times.

Also read Lily’s article, on the “Impact of the Coronavirus (COVID-19) On Google Organic Search Visibility

#43: Aleyda Solis

Episode Summary

In this episode, we chat with Aleyda Solis, International SEO consultant, speaker, author, as well as Founder of Orainti &


We discuss:

  • How she studied as a system engineer in Nicaragua and got her Masters in E-Commerce from the University of Salamanca in Spain
  • How her studies led her to become a web designer which eventually led her to SEO
  • Going from agency to in-house to becoming an independent consultant
  • Founding and managing her businesses
  • Her SEO FOMO newsletter
  • Building her personal brand
  • Public speaking, keeping up with her hectic schedule
  • Why she loves travel (and food)

And much more!

In the news

Deep dive

Finally, we have a deep dive into the topic of YouTube and Video SEO and Aleyda shares tips that she’s learned from her YouTube series Crawling Mondays.

#40: Garrett Mehrguth

Episode Summary


In this episode, we chat with Garrett Mehrguth, Founder and CEO of Directive, a search marketing agency for mid-market and enterprise brands.

We discuss:

  • How he went from college soccer star to Fiverr hustler to SEO
  • The founding of his business
  • His advice on how SEOs can begin to speak executive-level language
  • What it’s like to scale and run an agency and the pressure of being responsible for so many people
  • How he works to empower those within his organization
  • What it’s like to have to deliver bad news to an employee

And so much more.


In the news we talk about:

Deep Dive

Finally, we have a deep dive into why discoverability (not traffic, keywords, and links) needs to be put on an SEO pedestal.

#34: Casie Gillette

Episode Summary

We talk with Casie Gillette, Sr. Director of Digital at KoMarketing. We discuss:
  • How she got her start in marketing working for an online dating site in the mid 2000s literally handing out flyers in clubs, which actually led to her first SEO job which is ultimately where she fell in love with it
  • How she got to KoMarketing, how she left and then boomeranged right back
  • In-house versus agency
  • Her biggest SEO challenges
  • Convincing clients to get recommendations implemented
  • How she learned to be a confident public speaker
  • The recent SEO’s are assholes kerfuffle
  • The importance of SEO training and education

And much more.

Episode Transcript

00:00:01.260 –> 00:00:11.219
Jacob Stoops: Hey everybody this is Jacob stoops here again with the Page 2 Podcast and I am joined by Mr. Jeff Louella. Jeff, how’s it going?

00:00:11.759 –> 00:00:12.690
Jeff Louella: Hey everybody. How you doing?

00:00:13.590 –> 00:00:15.839
Jacob Stoops: Good. Jeff you changed it up that time.

00:00:15.900 –> 00:00:16.410
Jeff Louella: Yeah.

00:00:16.560 –> 00:00:17.970
Jacob Stoops: We, it’s like, Hey, how are you, hey,

00:00:18.750 –> 00:00:21.210
Jacob Stoops: Hey, like out. What is it out Borland

00:00:24.360 –> 00:00:27.000
Jacob Stoops: And yeah, that’s funny. We’re getting better.

00:00:27.240 –> 00:00:28.920
Jeff Louella: You’re getting better. And now I’m trying to figure it out.

00:00:29.730 –> 00:00:34.770
Jacob Stoops: And we are also joined by Casie Gillette, how’s it going, Casie.

00:00:35.040 –> 00:00:38.820
Casie Gillette: Hey, howdy, I think you’re too old time reference might be overlooked.

00:00:42.030 –> 00:00:43.260
Casie Gillette: Cast. Yeah.

00:00:44.190 –> 00:00:46.260
Jacob Stoops: Yeah, Jeff reminds of Al Borland

00:00:46.920 –> 00:00:48.210
Jeff Louella: Yeah, his

00:00:48.240 –> 00:00:49.980
Jacob Stoops: Side hobbies, and he’s do-gooder.

00:00:50.430 –> 00:00:50.640

00:00:52.770 –> 00:00:53.520
Jeff Louella: Just like out

00:00:53.640 –> 00:01:10.380
Jacob Stoops: Um, so, Casie is the Senior Director of digital at KoMarketing and is really awesome guests. I’ve said this, I think, to a few guests. So I don’t want you to feel like you’re not at all special because you are special and

00:01:10.650 –> 00:01:11.610
Casie Gillette: You sound like my mother.

00:01:11.820 –> 00:01:12.540

00:01:13.590 –> 00:01:14.520
Jeff Louella: Very special

00:01:14.970 –> 00:01:24.750
Jacob Stoops: But know when we were setting out to when I was setting out over a year ago to do this podcast. And when we kind of sat down for for season two.

00:01:25.350 –> 00:01:35.940
Jacob Stoops: You are definitely on the on the list of people that we wanted to talk to in in there’s a there’s a massive like we basically want to talk to everybody in SEO, but but

00:01:35.970 –> 00:01:38.070
Casie Gillette: It does really, really making me feel good here.

00:01:40.440 –> 00:01:41.370
We’re definitely

00:01:42.480 –> 00:01:46.620
Casie Gillette: I made Season two. That’s exciting. Thank you for having me. Yes. You made it to season to

00:01:46.860 –> 00:01:48.330
Jeff Louella: Meet you in

00:01:48.360 –> 00:01:54.900
Jacob Stoops: Season Season one was entirely just me trying to figure figure stuff out live on the internet. So anyways,

00:01:55.680 –> 00:01:58.290
Casie Gillette: That’s our job. That’s our job is search marketers anyway.

00:01:58.530 –> 00:02:07.920
Jacob Stoops: Well, yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s basically 25 hours of me just gabbing gabbing online and I decided to bring Jeff in to talk with me so

00:02:08.430 –> 00:02:09.240
Jeff Louella: Just for my intro

00:02:09.840 –> 00:02:10.470
Jacob Stoops: Yeah.

00:02:10.500 –> 00:02:12.840
Jacob Stoops: Yeah. So in terms of what we’re going to be

00:02:12.840 –> 00:02:26.010
Jacob Stoops: Covering today. So we’ve got a great agenda, first and foremost, we’re going to talk to. Casie about her background and then we are going to cover a little bit of SEO news, surprise, surprise, there was another kerfuffle in the industry.

00:02:26.550 –> 00:02:31.980
Jacob Stoops: Always industry seems to always have a kerfuffle probably once or twice a week.

00:02:32.730 –> 00:02:39.420
Jacob Stoops: That will talk about a little bit of drama and then at the end of the show. If anybody has stuck around to the end.

00:02:39.960 –> 00:02:48.240
Jacob Stoops: We’re going to talk about building a team and SEO training and how to go about that and the importance of doing that.

00:02:49.200 –> 00:03:11.550
Jacob Stoops: So definitely, definitely a great agenda today so Casie, the hallmark of the show, kind of like we’re superheroes is the the origin story of great SEOs and the the backgrounds, the trials. The tribulations. Um, so tell us about yourself. How did you get into SEO and just, who are you

00:03:11.820 –> 00:03:24.930
Casie Gillette: Yeah, loaded question. Um, you know, I was one of those people who didn’t know what SEO was we didn’t know what it was in 2005 I’d never heard of it. You know, I was out of college, I was bartending.

00:03:25.380 –> 00:03:31.200
Casie Gillette: thought, gosh, I guess I should probably get a job in marketing. My parents paid a lot of money for my college education.

00:03:31.920 –> 00:03:44.760
Casie Gillette: And a guy that I knew that that I had just met through the bar had approached me about this job in marketing. I was like okay well what it ended up being was. It was an online dating site.

00:03:45.210 –> 00:03:55.200
Casie Gillette: And but this is 2005 so like online dating wasn’t really a thing. And what we had to do was go out to clubs and hand out flyers for

00:03:56.220 –> 00:04:03.930
Casie Gillette: Dating site, which is awful. Right. That’s just an awful job but fast forward about six months I had stopped doing that, after

00:04:04.410 –> 00:04:14.610
Casie Gillette: Month, I think. And he reached back out and said, Hey, I have this job. We have another job doing SEO. Are you interested. And I said, I don’t know what that is but sure.

00:04:15.330 –> 00:04:28.230
Casie Gillette: And that was it. You know, I was so fortunate because the company that I ended up working for at the time was huge. They were about 150 people in it had people like Jenni Halas and Garrett French and Andy Beal

00:04:28.890 –> 00:04:31.470
Casie Gillette: These people in JP Sherman these people that you know

00:04:32.460 –> 00:04:42.090
Casie Gillette: As these you know industry thought leaders. Well, that’s where they also started out. So I had these amazing people to train me and to teach me. You know what SEO is and

00:04:42.690 –> 00:04:56.520
Casie Gillette: I think like most of us, I just fell in love, you know, you start doing it like, Wow, this is this is exciting and it changes and that’s cool. And, you know, here we are 1314 years later, whatever year it is. Now, I don’t know.

00:04:57.660 –> 00:04:59.400
Jacob Stoops: I hear that it’s going to be 2020

00:04:59.580 –> 00:05:00.420
Jacob Stoops: Oh, that’s

00:05:01.770 –> 00:05:04.020
Jacob Stoops: A new decade or still the same decade people

00:05:04.020 –> 00:05:04.410
Jacob Stoops: Yeah.

00:05:04.470 –> 00:05:06.210
Casie Gillette: No, no, it’s tricky.

00:05:06.600 –> 00:05:14.850
Jacob Stoops: So how did you get to KoMarketing and not only then, how did you kind of climb the ladder to senior director

00:05:15.150 –> 00:05:17.280
Casie Gillette: Yeah, well, just run

00:05:18.930 –> 00:05:24.330
Casie Gillette: I had when I was down in Carolina. I was ready to move up, back, back up north. I was like, I gotta South here.

00:05:24.900 –> 00:05:34.980
Casie Gillette: So I applied to a job at KoMarketing actually and I just, I loved what I loved what they had to offer. Well, at the time, there were only three other people

00:05:35.430 –> 00:05:46.860
Casie Gillette: So I ended up moving up here. There were four of us in total just really small, which was so fun. You know, it was a whole new experience. I went from this big company to a very small company.

00:05:47.400 –> 00:05:58.050
Casie Gillette: And that was really exciting. Now that happened around 2009 2007 2008 right before the economy collapsed.

00:05:58.770 –> 00:06:05.370
Casie Gillette: And you know, we started to lose a lot of client, right, we just didn’t have a lot of business and I was approached to go in house.

00:06:06.180 –> 00:06:09.930
Casie Gillette: Start, you know, start an SEO team there help run the digital marketing team and so

00:06:10.230 –> 00:06:15.210
Casie Gillette: I went and did that for a couple years. And that was really cool. I never thought that I would want to go and house because

00:06:15.480 –> 00:06:20.550
Casie Gillette: You know when you’re on the agency side. It’s so fun right there. There’s all these different things always happening.

00:06:21.120 –> 00:06:32.640
Casie Gillette: But the opportunity was really great. You know, I got exposure to like running TV ads and radio ads, you know, building a social team building a community team so that stuff was really fun.

00:06:33.720 –> 00:06:41.010
Casie Gillette: But I stayed in touch with the marketing guys because they were so fantastic. In a few years into that they said, you know, do you want to come back.

00:06:42.630 –> 00:06:50.430
Casie Gillette: I don’t know. And, you know, Derek, who, who runs KoMarketing was like, well, moving the office downtown. I was like okay now I’m listening.

00:06:52.020 –> 00:07:02.130
Casie Gillette: You know, I live in the city. And I always had to drive out there and my whole dream of moving to Boston was I didn’t have to have a car and I didn’t have to drive. Anyway, so he was making my dream come true.

00:07:02.520 –> 00:07:03.090
Jacob Stoops: There it is.

00:07:03.690 –> 00:07:10.350
Casie Gillette: Yeah, so I mean that’s, you know, I’ve kinda, you know, I’ve been at KoMarketing twice. Now, I’ve been back seven years. So a total of 10

00:07:11.880 –> 00:07:26.850
Casie Gillette: And you know, it’s just, it’s been fun to watch. It’s been fun to help grow the company, the guys who run it are fantastic. We have such great people on the team. We’re really meticulous about who we hire and how we hire and I think because of that we’ve been able to be successful.

00:07:27.930 –> 00:07:39.390
Jacob Stoops: So I’m going to apologize in advance because I’m, what I’m hearing is so you were at KoMarketing in then went in house somewhere and then back to KoMarketing.

00:07:39.390 –> 00:07:39.960
Casie Gillette: Correct.

00:07:40.020 –> 00:07:44.010
Jacob Stoops: Okay, because I was thinking I was like wait, you’re at KoMarketing, but you’re also in house.

00:07:44.160 –> 00:07:46.770
Casie Gillette: Yeah, I’m very to I’m multitasking. Yeah.

00:07:46.800 –> 00:07:58.980
Jacob Stoops: OK, so the, it seems like the first time you were doing a lot of off offline TV and radio and and then a little dabbling in in the social space and

00:08:00.000 –> 00:08:07.530
Jacob Stoops: I guess what is so different outside of being downtown different this time in terms of like your role.

00:08:07.800 –> 00:08:20.250
Casie Gillette: Yeah. Well, I think one of the things that was really exciting to me was I got to come in and build a team. And that’s honestly one of my absolute favorite things about my role about this industry.

00:08:21.000 –> 00:08:28.170
Casie Gillette: You know, I do a lot of speaking events. And the reason is, I love that part. Like I just love when someone comes up to you and says,

00:08:28.500 –> 00:08:34.440
Casie Gillette: I’ve never thought about this this way or like, Oh, this is so helpful or, you know, you write a blog posts and someone says,

00:08:34.800 –> 00:08:41.310
Casie Gillette: Oh, I use that and I sent it to my team like it makes you feel like, okay, I’m doing this for a reason.

00:08:41.940 –> 00:08:52.740
Casie Gillette: You know, there’s a rewarding element to it. And as part of coming back. My role here was to build a team who you know we got, I get to teach them SEO. I get to teach them marketing.

00:08:53.370 –> 00:08:59.700
Casie Gillette: And you get to watch them all grow up and become really good marketers and I love that. I think that’s really fun and exciting.

00:09:03.120 –> 00:09:11.370
Jacob Stoops: So have to ask always have to ask this comes up, like every episode, I’m in house or agency.

00:09:12.030 –> 00:09:14.610
Casie Gillette: So I am an agency girl.

00:09:16.260 –> 00:09:31.200
Casie Gillette: I do have to say like there are benefits of being in house one a lot easier. You know you you’ve talked to people who work at agencies I. In fact, I remember when I was coming back to the agency world and

00:09:32.700 –> 00:09:35.040
Casie Gillette: I know it’s like, well, how could she

00:09:37.080 –> 00:09:46.860
Casie Gillette: Like, why don’t you do with clients, but I don’t know like I don’t know about you guys, but I love the challenge, right. I feel like there’s always new challenges and like

00:09:47.130 –> 00:09:58.590
Casie Gillette: When you’re in house you’re only exposed to a minimal amount of things, whereas on the agency side, you know, I have 10 clients. And so I’m seeing all of these different situations.

00:09:59.130 –> 00:10:13.350
Casie Gillette: Just the learning element in the space. We have to keep up. You have to be constantly learning. And I think at the agency side, you get a little more exposure to that because you do have the different things. So for me, if agency, but I certainly understand why people like being in house.

00:10:14.040 –> 00:10:18.780
Jeff Louella: Do you ever feel that you can’t get everything you want to get done.

00:10:18.900 –> 00:10:19.440
Oh, yeah.

00:10:20.550 –> 00:10:21.210
Casie Gillette: Yeah.

00:10:21.420 –> 00:10:26.850
Jeff Louella: We have a set amount of hours where, you know, not sure what that is but you know every

00:10:26.850 –> 00:10:27.960
Jeff Louella: Client is different, but

00:10:28.620 –> 00:10:35.880
Jeff Louella: They’re my I’ve always been an agency. I’ve never been in house and the one thing I always dreamed about was actually being able to just

00:10:36.450 –> 00:10:43.950
Jeff Louella: Sit there and like being internal meetings and hammer own like I have one client who’s blocking right now blocking Google

00:10:44.940 –> 00:10:57.060
Jeff Louella: And and they have been for the last six weeks and their dev teams like, well, we’re just trying to block acts like during the holidays, they’re blocking extra crawlers coming to the site because they’re so fragile.

00:10:57.570 –> 00:10:58.440
Jeff Louella: So sad.

00:10:58.800 –> 00:11:06.660
Jeff Louella: And I just wish I can be in those meetings every day and showing them and I do send reports as don’t know if it gets to the dev team because I’m working with marketing team and

00:11:07.020 –> 00:11:17.100
Jeff Louella: The thing. So sometimes I do dream about being in a house, but, um, but, as you said, like we have 10 different clients. So I just focus my time. Other places where I need it but

00:11:17.400 –> 00:11:23.760
Casie Gillette: Yeah, well, and I also found that, you know, working in house was cool because it’s like, hey, I want to do this. Okay, I’m just gonna go do it.

00:11:24.270 –> 00:11:34.500
Casie Gillette: And if you have that autonomy. That’s fantastic. But I was there for three years. And so, and thankfully I did have three different websites that I was working on. But like

00:11:34.860 –> 00:11:45.960
Casie Gillette: If you’re only working on, let’s say one website. And it’s not like a giant e com site. It’s just a, you know, maybe it’s a B2B site, whatever it is, like, there’s only so much you can do.

00:11:46.230 –> 00:11:46.560
Jeff Louella: Yeah.

00:11:46.590 –> 00:11:56.850
Casie Gillette: There’s only so much for me. I started to get a little bored and it was nice because like I said I got exposure to these other things, but it can get a little enough. Yes.

00:11:57.510 –> 00:12:08.160
Jacob Stoops: Yeah, I’m sure. I think like you, like you said, You’re an agency girl, I think, like, I don’t know what it, what it is, but I feel like it’s just

00:12:08.970 –> 00:12:15.000
Jacob Stoops: bred into your personality in terms of which side of the fence you you fall on

00:12:15.510 –> 00:12:24.690
Jacob Stoops: Some people tend to lean in house. Some people tend to lean agency for different reasons I’ve said many times I’ve been in both situations and

00:12:25.110 –> 00:12:41.310
Jacob Stoops: For whatever reason, I just tend to thrive more in the agency lifestyle as crazy as it is, it can get. Sometimes I’ve been in house, a couple of times. And each time I, I just, I really didn’t like it.

00:12:42.420 –> 00:12:50.130
Jacob Stoops: Made me. It was a function of just the particular opportunities and what was going on in house at the time.

00:12:51.000 –> 00:13:04.080
Jacob Stoops: But there have been times in my agency life where I’m I think just like Jeff like man, the grass looks really, really green, it would be great just to just to work on one web

00:13:04.530 –> 00:13:13.470
Jacob Stoops: All the time and do it really, really, really well. And then you get on the you get on the in house side and you’re like, Okay, I’m working on this.

00:13:14.730 –> 00:13:16.890
Jacob Stoops: And now what do I do with the rest of my time.

00:13:16.890 –> 00:13:17.850
Casie Gillette: Right, but

00:13:18.390 –> 00:13:29.010
Jacob Stoops: It is nice to be able to like have in developed close relationships with a lot of different stakeholders within the, within the company like it’s nice to

00:13:29.670 –> 00:13:37.170
Jacob Stoops: For example, in my last last role, I was able to just get up and walk two desks over and say, hey,

00:13:37.770 –> 00:13:49.770
Jacob Stoops: Aaron, who was a developer, like I’m trying to get this thing implemented, but like, I’m seeing this error and he would fix it on the spot and go okay great that’ll get pushed live tonight and stuff like that was

00:13:50.370 –> 00:13:57.870
Jacob Stoops: Invaluable. And not only that, but just walking down to to another floor to talk with one of the other teams.

00:13:58.260 –> 00:14:09.720
Jacob Stoops: And get an understanding because they handled customers directly and like working directly with them. I mean, there were a couple of times where we work directly with them to actually create pieces of content.

00:14:09.840 –> 00:14:11.220
Jacob Stoops: Yeah subject matter.

00:14:12.480 –> 00:14:18.390
Casie Gillette: That’s like one of my favorite things I talked about that a lot is like when I was in house we talked to the customer support team every week.

00:14:18.780 –> 00:14:29.220
Casie Gillette: Right. And it was so awesome. Knowing here’s what people are asking for. Here’s what they can’t find like here’s what the second yeah so that there are those benefits. Yeah, but

00:14:29.580 –> 00:14:40.110
Jacob Stoops: Like I said, I just, I made for agency. I like the I like the challenge. I like the diversity and I feel as if

00:14:41.520 –> 00:14:44.130
Jacob Stoops: The competition with other agencies.

00:14:45.480 –> 00:14:51.420
Jacob Stoops: In addition to the competition with your clients and their competitors. Yeah, really.

00:14:51.750 –> 00:15:00.480
Jacob Stoops: Really drives me. I come from a sports background so I’m super competitive and not to say that if you don’t come from other backgrounds. You’re not competitive, but I feel like for me that’s

00:15:00.870 –> 00:15:08.100
Jacob Stoops: Plays plays into it. So like I i like to win. And for me, I can see is giving me the best chance to kind of

00:15:09.510 –> 00:15:11.100
Jacob Stoops: Scratch that competitive edge.

00:15:11.190 –> 00:15:13.140
Casie Gillette: Yeah, that’s exactly how I feel.

00:15:14.340 –> 00:15:18.180
Jacob Stoops: So you do public speaking. What’s, what’s that look

00:15:19.410 –> 00:15:19.680
Casie Gillette: Like

00:15:21.270 –> 00:15:33.390
Casie Gillette: Well, no, it’s fun. Honestly, um, I don’t know. I don’t even remember how I got into it, or why, but I just know like once I was up there. I was like, oh yeah, this is for me.

00:15:34.890 –> 00:15:36.630
Casie Gillette: There’s just something to be said about

00:15:38.070 –> 00:15:50.940
Casie Gillette: You know, you’re being in front of your peers and having them listen. It makes you have to up your game. I never ever ever want to go to a conference and disappoint people

00:15:51.630 –> 00:16:03.690
Casie Gillette: And because of that, I think it’s really forced me to make sure that I’m talking about the right things. I’m learning the right things. I’m focused on the things I’m passionate about. I think that’s a huge one.

00:16:04.950 –> 00:16:16.110
Casie Gillette: When I first started speaking I talked about link building about a year into that. I was like, if I have to talk about link building one more time. I’m going to jump off the stage. Like, I can’t, I can’t talk about it anymore.

00:16:17.100 –> 00:16:26.970
Casie Gillette: But I needed to find something else that I was passionate about right and and also you have to find something that not everyone else is saying, although there’s a lot of it right

00:16:28.110 –> 00:16:36.540
Casie Gillette: That in the space, and I’m sure I’ve done it, too. But I just, I just love it. I love what the camaraderie of conferences.

00:16:36.960 –> 00:16:53.730
Casie Gillette: I will say that I have made some amazing friends through conferences that I go on vacation with now that I talked to you in real life that have become like close lifelong friends that are never would have gotten to do that without speaking. So it’s just fun. I just really like it.

00:16:54.540 –> 00:17:02.340
Jacob Stoops: Have you do you get nervous or you just one of those natural, natural because like I feel like it was

00:17:03.630 –> 00:17:15.120
Jacob Stoops: All a couple of couple of guests ago I can’t remember exactly who it was. Alicia or Leisha Anderson or Andrea Bergman, it was like, Nope, I just stepped right up there and it’s it’s easy.

00:17:15.180 –> 00:17:20.310
Casie Gillette: It’s nice. I get nervous. Yeah, there’s a moment not I’m not nervous like

00:17:21.120 –> 00:17:31.770
Casie Gillette: A day before I’m nervous for like that 20 minutes before, but the moment that I’m on the stage. It’s fine. Totally fine. Like the moment that I’m up there. Your adrenaline’s poverty, like, all right, I’m in

00:17:32.460 –> 00:17:37.620
Casie Gillette: And you can’t be nervous up there. So, but, yeah, there’s about I usually don’t eat before I can

00:17:39.030 –> 00:17:39.960
Casie Gillette: Just gotta go.

00:17:41.610 –> 00:17:42.270
Jacob Stoops: It. Go ahead, Jeff.

00:17:42.300 –> 00:17:46.590
Jeff Louella: I’ll just say I don’t speak a ton bone. I do. I usually start off with the dad joke.

00:17:49.050 –> 00:17:54.270
Jeff Louella: When the crowd. As soon as I get them the laugh. And I’m like, all right, I’m good. But, but if they don’t laugh. I’m like, Oh, no.

00:17:57.780 –> 00:17:58.980
Jeff Louella: Luckily I’m so good. They always

00:18:00.240 –> 00:18:02.190
Jeff Louella: Get the greatest dad. Exactly.

00:18:03.030 –> 00:18:10.980
Jacob Stoops: Yeah, I have this I have this thing and it’s sometimes applies to speaking, but mostly singing in public, where

00:18:12.690 –> 00:18:29.250
Jacob Stoops: It’s literally like, like you said 20 minutes before I’m set to like go on and go on. It’s not like I sing in like these massive arenas or anything. My wife and I sing it a benefit concert every, every color. Yeah, yeah, it is cool.

00:18:30.450 –> 00:18:43.920
Jacob Stoops: But even as small as the as the venue is I have this thing where, when I go on for about the 20 minutes before and even sometimes as

00:18:44.850 –> 00:18:55.530
Jacob Stoops: As close to performing as literally like the song comes on and I’m about three seconds from having to open my mouth. Forget all the lyrics, they just go out of my head.

00:18:55.980 –> 00:19:10.290
Jacob Stoops: Really, yeah. Yeah, it’s like a complete blackout really like scary because like there are times when I’m standing out there. And all I’m thinking is not how well I need to sing more like what do I say

00:19:10.350 –> 00:19:11.640
Casie Gillette: What am I even thinking

00:19:11.880 –> 00:19:21.960
Jacob Stoops: What am I singing and then then the music comes on and I’m still I’m starting to panic. Now, like Panic, panic. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. And then finally,

00:19:22.950 –> 00:19:32.190
Jacob Stoops: I remember like it was yesterday. I opened my mouth words came out and they were the right words and I went along by I went along my merry way and

00:19:32.670 –> 00:19:49.350
Jacob Stoops: For anybody that has that kind of public phobia. The idea of public speaking can be nauseating like nauseating. So I guess what advice would you give to people that struggle with the idea of getting up in front of their peers.

00:19:49.500 –> 00:20:00.630
Casie Gillette: Well, what I was gonna say was, I mean what you just talked about is just the benefit of muscle memory, right, like we talked about practicing. I know there’s people who will say, like, you know, I don’t practice my presentations. I do.

00:20:01.020 –> 00:20:05.190
Casie Gillette: I run through them like you know me I don’t I try not to go, word for word, but like

00:20:05.580 –> 00:20:20.250
Casie Gillette: I run through that thing 20 times because I want to know that when I get out there that if something goes wrong, right, if I can’t see my slides. If there’s technical errors or whatever’s going on, you know, whether it’s fear or whatever that I still know my materials.

00:20:21.450 –> 00:20:29.370
Casie Gillette: But one of the things we do here is we start getting people like some of the trainings that we do involve people giving presentations.

00:20:29.760 –> 00:20:35.760
Casie Gillette: Because you’re only in front of maybe five people or 10 people or whatever it is you start small.

00:20:36.300 –> 00:20:45.000
Casie Gillette: I tell anyone you know who’s looking to get into public speaking. Look at a local event like I started just doing word camps that were here in Boston.

00:20:45.480 –> 00:21:02.220
Casie Gillette: Events like that, or just like local SEO meetups where you know people give you an opportunity new speakers, they’re expecting new speakers, where you don’t. They don’t care if you mess up, right. Those are the things that that for me, it’s like know your material and start small.

00:21:04.350 –> 00:21:12.990
Jeff Louella: You have done a couple when I used to live in Philadelphia and we had a pretty vibrant SEO Meetup group. They’re called SEO grill and

00:21:13.500 –> 00:21:21.270
Jeff Louella: I got to speak there a couple times and I do small events. A lot of times I used to run a homebrew club making beer.

00:21:21.960 –> 00:21:30.150
Jeff Louella: So I would I would do presentation. Yeah, you know, a it was funny when I decided to start a club. I was like, I don’t want to do work after work.

00:21:30.930 –> 00:21:40.650
Jeff Louella: And I enjoyed the air and me, my friends who started brewing were like, you know, we want to meet other people to do it. And then we started a club and then that grew to 300 people

00:21:40.950 –> 00:21:46.920
Jeff Louella: My guy, and it was insane. Like we were just at this one bar on the Tuesday night would just be packed to the gills.

00:21:47.580 –> 00:22:03.030
Jeff Louella: The guy would never have any traffic on the Tuesday night before, and so it was a good time. But from there. I learned a lot of just, again, if you know your material like if I talked about SEO or if I talked about home brewing, I can. I don’t need slides, I can just talk about it, but

00:22:04.530 –> 00:22:10.530
Jeff Louella: But yeah, when you’re in front of a bunch of people, it can be be scary. So, but where did you get from like

00:22:12.090 –> 00:22:19.380
Jeff Louella: The confidence. You know, you start off bartending. You’re saying, and then now 10 years later, you’re in stage, you know, Mosque on

00:22:20.640 –> 00:22:26.100
Jeff Louella: And then there’s many of us who’ve been doing SEO just as long. And, you know, haven’t gotten past the meetup groups.

00:22:26.160 –> 00:22:27.570
Jeff Louella: Yeah, so

00:22:27.960 –> 00:22:41.310
Casie Gillette: Honestly, I again I’ve just been really lucky, like the support of the community, I would say. So even when I first started doing like I did an SMS show and it I

00:22:41.970 –> 00:22:49.380
Casie Gillette: One of the benefits. I was working in house right and I do think there’s a benefit when you’re in house that if you’re looking to speak, they’re more open to having you right

00:22:49.500 –> 00:22:50.820
Jeff Louella: Now big brand behind. Yes.

00:22:50.880 –> 00:23:00.030
Casie Gillette: Yep. And so that was really helpful. But at that show I met a couple people, you know, Elizabeth awesome Alaska who worked for third door for a long time. Greg Finn.

00:23:00.600 –> 00:23:10.590
Casie Gillette: There, people who just became my friends, but they also were these huge support systems. And so they were encouraging me to start writing for Search Engine Land. Right. So they got me doing that.

00:23:11.280 –> 00:23:23.100
Casie Gillette: You know, they would encourage they would help me with my pitches. Right. So I’ve just been really lucky I think in that the people that I have surrounded myself with or gotten to know have all been so supportive

00:23:23.790 –> 00:23:28.620
Casie Gillette: You know, even I was doing. I got invited to do search love one year in London.

00:23:29.100 –> 00:23:37.440
Casie Gillette: And a friend of mine, Aaron Friedman, who I had met through another show like we spent the night before our sessions just practicing with one another.

00:23:37.860 –> 00:23:42.900
Casie Gillette: And so, those kinds of things. Just, just really help. I don’t know. I’m not a shy person.

00:23:43.860 –> 00:23:55.530
Casie Gillette: I think that that makes the biggest difference is I know people in the industry will talk about, you know, I’m very introverted, or I’m very extroverted like I am an extrovert. I just very much am I enjoy being around people.

00:23:56.280 –> 00:24:08.400
Casie Gillette: I like conferences, I’d like being in crowds. So that part I think certainly helps because you know when you’re just out there just being loud, like I am. I don’t know if that helps or not, but

00:24:09.450 –> 00:24:25.830
Jacob Stoops: Funny. My wife is exactly like that, and I am. She is like the type of person that never met a person that she couldn’t talk to and like immediately make them like her, and be her friend and I am like, I’m a nice person, but I am

00:24:26.550 –> 00:24:35.550
Jacob Stoops: The opposite where like when I get into big crowds situations. It makes me like twitchy uncomfortable super uncomfortable.

00:24:36.840 –> 00:24:40.230
Jacob Stoops: Which is the yeah I then find it odd that I choose to do a

00:24:40.500 –> 00:24:42.300
Casie Gillette: Podcast right out there.

00:24:42.570 –> 00:24:51.780
Casie Gillette: Talking to people. I mean, I will say this, like, I don’t love I’ll be the first to say that I don’t love networking events like where you’re just with a whole bunch of strangers, but like

00:24:52.140 –> 00:24:59.100
Casie Gillette: I just like myself up for it. So you just, I just get mentally prepared and then you’re just you’re in, you know, I’m fine. Once I’m in it, but

00:25:00.900 –> 00:25:02.460
Jeff Louella: Yeah, I mean, it was tough moving like

00:25:03.540 –> 00:25:09.570
Jeff Louella: I know you. It seems like you’ve moved around a little bit, but I lived in Philadelphia for 42 years

00:25:09.990 –> 00:25:17.040
Jeff Louella: Wow started to move to Atlanta and pick up the family and move and it was really tough for my wife at first.

00:25:17.520 –> 00:25:26.280
Jeff Louella: But she is that type of person to you can put her in a room, she starts chatting with people and I think she’s actually impressed herself with how she can. She’s like 1000 friends now.

00:25:27.300 –> 00:25:30.180
Jeff Louella: And and the ones in there going, like I have a couple people. I kind of talk to you.

00:25:31.620 –> 00:25:37.350
Jeff Louella: I’m still I’m like texts with my friends back home, but it’s and she’s out every night, so it’s it’s interesting how

00:25:37.350 –> 00:25:37.800
Casie Gillette: I

00:25:37.950 –> 00:25:41.010
Jeff Louella: Put yourself in that position, and then you can like, get out there. Yeah.

00:25:41.190 –> 00:25:43.320
Jacob Stoops: You don’t it, Jeff, you’ll have a few more friends.

00:25:43.650 –> 00:25:45.660
Jeff Louella: Yeah. That’s what the internet’s great

00:25:48.270 –> 00:25:56.190
Jacob Stoops: So Casie, what are some of the biggest challenges that you run into operating in the agency world.

00:25:57.150 –> 00:26:12.870
Casie Gillette: Um, I mean, I do think, you know, it just thinking about the team, you know, thinking about hiring. It’s so competitive right now, you know, especially, you know, we’re a smaller agency. There’s a little under 30 a few of like 30 of us.

00:26:13.920 –> 00:26:21.720
Casie Gillette: And when you’re trying to hire that like 123 years person. It is like just a battle.

00:26:22.320 –> 00:26:28.650
Casie Gillette: Axe and especially here in Boston, where there’s a ton of companies and a ton of tech companies and even just a ton of agencies, right.

00:26:28.890 –> 00:26:38.100
Casie Gillette: A lot of the big digital, you know, the big agencies, you have like digital us and you know those places who are now trying to get in the game, and they’re willing to pay a lot more

00:26:38.430 –> 00:26:43.650
Casie Gillette: To have those 123 years like I think hiring has certainly been a challenge. And we’ve been really lucky.

00:26:44.370 –> 00:26:51.060
Casie Gillette: Make our team is amazing. We’ve been able to get some really good people in, but then you have people who are constantly recruiting them away.

00:26:51.960 –> 00:26:56.070
Casie Gillette: So it’s like a battle. It’s like such a battle right now from that perspective.

00:26:57.000 –> 00:27:09.780
Casie Gillette: But then you have clients and you know to Geoff’s point earlier, there’s only so much time right there’s only so much time, you only have so many resources. I have a client right now that I adore. I love them to death.

00:27:10.800 –> 00:27:21.930
Casie Gillette: Unfortunately, when the search results changed in June with that big update. They weren’t penalized. But what happened was the search results themselves shifted so much

00:27:22.290 –> 00:27:30.870
Casie Gillette: That they went from being in you know the position one at the top of the page that didn’t have a lot of elements to now they’re

00:27:31.260 –> 00:27:43.620
Casie Gillette: In position to be ahead of them are now sponsored products and a map and the Knowledge Graph and people also asked box and so their traffic just tanked. And when you see that like

00:27:44.070 –> 00:27:55.290
Casie Gillette: It’s just gut wrenching because, you know, like I’m doing everything I can to help this client, but I can’t get them back there, right, like unless those search results change like I can’t get them back there.

00:27:55.980 –> 00:28:01.650
Casie Gillette: So that stuff is is just, it’s so challenging and frustrating because you have these clients that you love and you want to help them but

00:28:01.980 –> 00:28:12.450
Casie Gillette: Sometimes you just have to say like we have to change our, we have to change our strategy right and i mean like a complete one need to change our strategy. So I think that that’s a tough one.

00:28:13.170 –> 00:28:25.650
Jeff Louella: I mean it’s tougher all these days with Google putting so many other elements on the page. Besides that, besides just organic and it is surprising. Sometimes when I still do well. And there are other things on that page.

00:28:26.370 –> 00:28:33.090
Jeff Louella: But you know Google’s tracking all that, too. So they’re also going to be changing those features around a lot. Yeah. And I do

00:28:33.660 –> 00:28:37.050
Jeff Louella: You know, I think it’s really important to start spreading out into other mediums.

00:28:37.470 –> 00:28:46.200
Jeff Louella: Cuz you’re going to have video links are going to have image links and it’s like if we don’t optimize our images or maybe add videos like those are areas we can get to

00:28:46.560 –> 00:28:56.670
Jeff Louella: I think figuring out a track it all is another aspect. Um, but, but one of those is like there’s gonna be 10 listings above you, that are just not organic. And how do we get into those listings

00:28:56.940 –> 00:28:59.670
Casie Gillette: Right, and even, like, you know, for that same client. I mean,

00:29:00.090 –> 00:29:11.520
Casie Gillette: One of the first things we did. We’re like, All right, let’s get like FAQ schema on the site right like they have FAQs the search results are showing FAQs. Like, let’s get this up. Let’s test it. Let’s see what that can do so.

00:29:11.730 –> 00:29:24.780
Casie Gillette: We’re really trying everything we can think of here to help with that. But sometimes you know there’s there’s only so much that we can do. But yeah, I love your like, but like you have to diversify. Some people just don’t want to hear that, though.

00:29:25.590 –> 00:29:34.050
Jeff Louella: Yeah, and it’s hard to diversify. Right. I mean, one reason when Jacob asked me to come on to the podcast was like something I always wanted to do, but I know it’s a lot of work to do it.

00:29:34.560 –> 00:29:39.780
Jeff Louella: And it’s like there’s a whole bunch of new algorithms. I got to learn because it’s like to get your, you know, a podcast even

00:29:40.170 –> 00:29:50.730
Jeff Louella: Show up like it’s learning right it’s like you on iTunes. We don’t show up yet. But there’s ones out there that haven’t been talked like having the three episodes and haven’t been uploaded in 10 years entered like number four.

00:29:51.810 –> 00:29:58.140
Jeff Louella: It’s like why so that’s not the that’s not Google. I feel like if it was Google. I don’t understand it but

00:29:58.170 –> 00:29:58.530

00:29:59.880 –> 00:30:01.740
Jeff Louella: Exactly so. So

00:30:01.830 –> 00:30:13.860
Jacob Stoops: When people don’t want to hear it. How do you approach that because I feel like I’ve said it like 80 million times the implementation, especially on the agency side is our biggest problem and then

00:30:14.400 –> 00:30:31.800
Jacob Stoops: Changing hearts and hearts and minds and figuring out from a psychological perspective, what can you do or say to get people to kind of come around to your understanding of a situation or the reality of situation, how do you, how do you go about that.

00:30:32.100 –> 00:30:39.600
Casie Gillette: I mean, one thing that I take a lot of pride in. And that, you know, specifically here at KoMarketing is like we have really good relationships with our clients.

00:30:40.140 –> 00:30:50.910
Casie Gillette: You know, I have a client that I’ve worked with since I started here and she’s like her fifth organization and she just brings us with her everywhere she goes, it’s so awesome.

00:30:51.930 –> 00:31:00.510
Casie Gillette: But because of those relationships we are able to be very direct about it, right, like, one of the things that I really do pride myself in is

00:31:00.810 –> 00:31:06.330
Casie Gillette: I’m not. I’m never gonna lie to my clients right so like that example that I told you where search results shifted

00:31:06.690 –> 00:31:15.270
Casie Gillette: You know, I said like, look, we can keep trying to get back, we can keep trying to get back for this keyword all you want, but unless this changes.

00:31:15.600 –> 00:31:22.980
Casie Gillette: There’s nothing that we’re going to be able to do. But here’s the data that shows here are the other things that we can do right so

00:31:23.640 –> 00:31:32.160
Casie Gillette: In fact, one of the one of the girls who works here put together this sheet yesterday, this data set for this client that specifically looks at their competitors.

00:31:32.610 –> 00:31:35.040
Casie Gillette: We’ve been trying to get them to do a couple things.

00:31:35.910 –> 00:31:48.660
Casie Gillette: They’ve been a little bit hesitant to do it. She pulled all this data that’s competitive data search volume data like potential revenue data that now we take that and we present to them like here’s the actual financial impact of doing this.

00:31:49.260 –> 00:31:54.720
Casie Gillette: And I think that helps the one thing I always tell people I’m like just show them competition just show them their competitors.

00:31:55.110 –> 00:32:04.020
Casie Gillette: Like, especially when you’re talking to the C suite. If you show them like here’s what your competitors are doing. They absolutely are always like, Well, why aren’t we doing that.

00:32:05.250 –> 00:32:18.030
Casie Gillette: So I do think that helps is, you know, just just being honest and direct, you know, using the data you have, and, you know, if you can get buy in from from the upper level that that goes such a long way.

00:32:19.110 –> 00:32:25.080
Jacob Stoops: Do you find that they believe their data or the data that you provide them.

00:32:25.200 –> 00:32:33.780
Casie Gillette: I do it. But, you know, the one thing I do like is I think our clients are very smart. That’s actually something that’s changed that’s gone wrong.

00:32:38.970 –> 00:32:40.470
Jacob Stoops: Like I wanted to rewind that the

00:32:42.390 –> 00:32:50.550
Casie Gillette: The one thing that has definitely shifted over the past, you know, seven years, specifically for me being here is our contacts weren’t always

00:32:51.120 –> 00:33:10.890
Casie Gillette: Search savvy and now they are much more savvy when it comes to understanding SEO paid search, whatever it is. So our clients, not only they will question the data if it’s if it’s wrong, or if they have questions, but they understand it. And I think that is really, really helpful.

00:33:11.220 –> 00:33:14.910
Jacob Stoops: What do you think is led to that higher degree of understanding

00:33:15.390 –> 00:33:17.310
Casie Gillette: I mean, I think, just as the guy was so much more well known.

00:33:17.820 –> 00:33:30.420
Casie Gillette: Right. I mean, there’s still people who don’t necessarily know, but you know 10 years ago was like this little thing that maybe someone did. And it was such a niche. Whereas now, it’s a thing that they teach in college, which is amazing.

00:33:30.930 –> 00:33:34.740
Casie Gillette: But I think there’s just so much more awareness of it and people who who need to understand it.

00:33:35.130 –> 00:33:52.500
Jacob Stoops: You guys ever like I like even five years ago, I had never once on in like a traditional medium heard anybody like refer to SEO. So it was like the thing that I do for my living is like this super

00:33:53.160 –> 00:34:10.860
Jacob Stoops: Secret sort of thing to the to the public. And now, like I’m driving around done listening to in I’m in Columbus, so it’s 97 when the fan my sports radio and when you start to get the commercials in the ads there a company’s advertising SEO services. And I’m like,

00:34:11.880 –> 00:34:21.900
Jacob Stoops: Holy crap, this is becoming more mainstream whereas five years ago, like, no, you never saw it. I even today I’m ups. I’m upstairs and I’ve got a TV.

00:34:22.470 –> 00:34:35.580
Jacob Stoops: That can play I can play the YouTube and YouTube ad came on and it was for a digital marketing and SEO company. And I was like, well, about a year ago, I didn’t see much of that going that going on.

00:34:37.080 –> 00:34:39.990
Jacob Stoops: So you’re right it is becoming a little bit more, more.

00:34:40.350 –> 00:34:44.130
Casie Gillette: What we do it was on Jeopardy jeopardy. We’ve made it. Yeah.

00:34:44.880 –> 00:34:45.510
Jeff Louella: Yeah, one of my

00:34:45.600 –> 00:34:53.730
Jeff Louella: Favorite my favorite podcasts is a radio lab. And for the last two months or three months they they’ve been brought to you by wicks

00:34:54.180 –> 00:34:57.960
Jeff Louella: And all they’re talking about his mixes SEO capabilities.

00:34:58.470 –> 00:35:05.130
Jeff Louella: And I’m just like, oh, this is my favorite pocket. Like they their whole podcast is about like breaking things down. I wish they broke their average

00:35:08.490 –> 00:35:19.500
Jacob Stoops: Amy and knowing them, which just shelled out $25,000 to Marie Haines bolting like for winning the the wicks SEO contest and

00:35:19.500 –> 00:35:19.800
Jacob Stoops: Like

00:35:20.280 –> 00:35:28.650
Jacob Stoops: I was like holy shit if I didn’t know there were, there was 25 grand on the line, I would have been like, all right, I’m in. I let me let me get in there but

00:35:29.250 –> 00:35:40.170
Casie Gillette: I you know I appreciate it, that it goes to someone like her, though, who actually knows what she’s doing. Right. That, you know, I think she made a comment today, like, you know, she had eight people working on it for six months or something like

00:35:40.410 –> 00:35:48.600
Casie Gillette: But, you know, you see someone, it’s like okay this is a person that I know is smart. I know knows what they’re doing like better than some, you know, shady person.

00:35:49.110 –> 00:35:59.370
Jeff Louella: Yeah, well, when they ran a competition. Last year I know with a Patrick stocks, he like it was it came down to between him and someone else and

00:36:00.420 –> 00:36:11.940
Jeff Louella: You know, there was a lot of shady stuff going on on on some of those people were being bought and and and that was part of the rules and he couldn’t buy links so i know i don’t think Patrick was I think the guy who won.

00:36:12.330 –> 00:36:14.280
Casie Gillette: The other guy did yeah and it’s

00:36:14.640 –> 00:36:22.500
Jeff Louella: So it is an interesting thing. I give wicks credit because SEO is love like that again, there were competitive so

00:36:22.920 –> 00:36:23.850
Casie Gillette: That they’re on it to

00:36:24.450 –> 00:36:26.190
Jeff Louella: Totally like if we’re not in it. We’re crap.

00:36:27.630 –> 00:36:29.880
Jacob Stoops: I couldn’t believe the size of the font, though, man. I was like,

00:36:29.880 –> 00:36:30.270
Jeff Louella: That

00:36:30.360 –> 00:36:35.130
Jacob Stoops: You’re serious about this 25 G’s. Cool, man. So Jeff,

00:36:36.150 –> 00:36:37.710
Jacob Stoops: Let’s move to the next segment. What’s in

00:36:37.710 –> 00:36:38.250
Jeff Louella: Right.

00:36:38.370 –> 00:36:39.420
Jacob Stoops: Let’s get to the drama.

00:36:39.960 –> 00:36:49.530
Jeff Louella: Yes, more Twitter drama. So there was a post by think I’m gonna probably announce it will just say, Holly cuz she what’s her name on there but

00:36:49.860 –> 00:36:50.310
Jacob Stoops: I think you’re

00:36:50.910 –> 00:36:52.530
Jeff Louella: Blocked yeah girl Ziploc

00:36:52.950 –> 00:36:53.190

00:36:54.480 –> 00:37:02.160
Jeff Louella: But she pretty much came out and was saying in the first two pages of Google never surface any personal blogs or personal websites anymore.

00:37:03.330 –> 00:37:06.810
Jeff Louella: And everything it’s worthwhile like a question, you look at

00:37:08.220 –> 00:37:24.960
Jeff Louella: You know, it’s just being optimized bunch of bunch of SEO assholes. And that was a word to use, and I thought it was awesome. But at the same time right there was like you know as SEO assholes were kind of going out and saying there was a lot of different post out there so

00:37:26.580 –> 00:37:36.270
Jeff Louella: I know someone like Joe Hall, kind of like some of us aren’t assholes. And we took the time to learn the algorithms and stuff. And I think there was a lot of battle going back and forth between

00:37:37.410 –> 00:37:43.260
Jeff Louella: Is someone who is not so familiar with SEO and if I could see you know like you type in

00:37:44.010 –> 00:37:50.160
Jeff Louella: Anything and not anything but anything that’s like a probably a broader keyword. You can have a major company show up for it.

00:37:50.610 –> 00:38:02.820
Jeff Louella: Especially if it’s like something you’re trying to sell you know if you’re typing in iPhone or something like that. Like, you’re going to get a big brand, whether it’s apple or BestBuy or somebody there. And yes, they all have SEOs working for them.

00:38:04.350 –> 00:38:12.990
Jeff Louella: But it was the outrage was kind of interesting with it, where I mean john mule Mueller posted about it like you want to know what people thought

00:38:13.320 –> 00:38:22.500
Jeff Louella: You know bills. Yet all the big name as you guys out there, Bill slough ski, um, you know, there was an interesting conversation. I don’t know what your take, was it on

00:38:23.220 –> 00:38:37.620
Jeff Louella: Jacob, but it was really interesting kind of post between it because I really feel that, yes, there’s big brands out there. I think I understand why there’s big brands out there. I don’t think it’s anything. It could be. It’s not shady. It’s a grower trying to optimize for that.

00:38:38.910 –> 00:38:49.170
Jeff Louella: I do feel like there are some bad SEOs out there and they probably are doing bad things. But overall, we’re all trying to make our clients site more for the customers.

00:38:49.590 –> 00:38:55.770
Jeff Louella: And that’s why Google showing them over other people and that’s kind of what I feel that’s going on but I get her pain.

00:38:56.340 –> 00:39:08.790
Jeff Louella: Why, she’s, she’s like, if you don’t know that. And you’re just a blogger and you wonder why your blogs loss efforts traffic or isn’t getting the traffic. It means like, of course, you’re just gonna blame the people who specialize in that so

00:39:09.180 –> 00:39:13.860
Casie Gillette: I mean, at the same time, though, if you’re just realizing, like you’re so behind

00:39:13.920 –> 00:39:16.320
Casie Gillette: That’s why you’re not showing up anymore. Right. I

00:39:16.320 –> 00:39:16.740
Jeff Louella: Mean

00:39:17.130 –> 00:39:22.500
Casie Gillette: This started changing how many years ago, I personally don’t have any patience for that so

00:39:23.760 –> 00:39:30.930
Casie Gillette: I just don’t like one. I try to stay out of the SEO dramas, just like again I just other things that I’d like to do

00:39:32.190 –> 00:39:35.400
Casie Gillette: And usually it’s just people I think sometimes people like to argue

00:39:36.660 –> 00:39:38.100
Casie Gillette: I do think in one of the things I do

00:39:38.100 –> 00:39:51.660
Casie Gillette: Love about the SEO space and the people in it is that people are very protective of it right and it goes back to what we were just talking about were five years ago, people maybe didn’t know as much about SEO as they did. So I do think people are very

00:39:52.170 –> 00:40:05.970
Casie Gillette: protective of the Community as a whole, protective of what we do because we’ve always had to be a little bit defensive about it because let’s be real, like when I started the ship were doing was not like well as shady. Right. You’re just buying links and

00:40:06.480 –> 00:40:12.330
Casie Gillette: And it worked. And it was awesome. And you know there are people who are still figuring out how to game the system and at the

00:40:12.360 –> 00:40:27.720
Casie Gillette: End of the day, like, yes, like we’re not personally. It’s not like I’m doing over here doing anything shady, but I am working really hard to innocence game that algorithm. Right. I want my client site there and so

00:40:28.380 –> 00:40:37.080
Casie Gillette: What does that mean, well, it means you have to have a brand presence and it means you need to have content and, you know, yeah, these personal blogs don’t necessarily have that. So maybe they shouldn’t show up.

00:40:38.190 –> 00:40:39.750
Casie Gillette: And what are you trying to show up for so

00:40:39.990 –> 00:40:49.800
Jeff Louella: I don’t know i just i and i can show them like I didn’t want to get into because I’m anti drama myself, but I can show her where there’s personal blogs meeting some of my clients that

00:40:49.830 –> 00:40:50.790
Are driving. Yes.

00:40:52.080 –> 00:41:04.740
Casie Gillette: And it goes to the it goes to the sense of diversification exactly what we were just talking about, you know, for people who maybe you don’t have a big brands like you need to be looking at, you know, social or whatever it is, or medium or these

00:41:04.800 –> 00:41:06.480
Casie Gillette: Other platforms where you can gain

00:41:06.480 –> 00:41:12.600
Casie Gillette: Visibility because, I mean, even for my clients. I’m like, look how much time you have left in Google here, right.

00:41:13.920 –> 00:41:19.380
Casie Gillette: Time is limited for alive. So, you know, whether you’re a blogger not have enough people to sell things to complain, but

00:41:19.650 –> 00:41:20.880
Jeff Louella: What I find interesting.

00:41:20.880 –> 00:41:28.710
Jacob Stoops: About this is like, just like you guys said there are certain queries like across some of my clients were like

00:41:29.400 –> 00:41:35.940
Jacob Stoops: Half of the results are product pages and half of the results are articles.

00:41:36.570 –> 00:41:50.400
Jacob Stoops: blog articles resource articles, things like that. And as an SEO. It’s like it’s really interesting to try to figure out what Google thinks the real intent is. Is it informational is it transactional

00:41:51.000 –> 00:42:03.420
Jacob Stoops: But I would say to like the first comment about how, like, okay, Google never almost never surfaces blogs and personal websites what and my Google Pixel is going up as I’m saying saying this, so I’m

00:42:05.460 –> 00:42:06.630
Jacob Stoops: Always listening Google

00:42:08.340 –> 00:42:27.540
Jacob Stoops: It’s let’s just actually in inaccurate and I’m for, you know, I hate to to rail on this particular person. I don’t know what search that they were doing, but like honestly the last place I worked like we grew our traffic in about a year by like 100% and almost all of it was like

00:42:28.020 –> 00:42:32.850
Jacob Stoops: A blog. Yeah. And that brought in a lot of business. So like, there’s that.

00:42:34.050 –> 00:42:48.210
Jacob Stoops: The second part of this is the, the kind of more kerfuffle were like, Okay, well, just because there are people online that that optimize things to show up. We’re, we’re all assholes. Well,

00:42:49.530 –> 00:42:58.050
Jacob Stoops: Now you something like I feel like there are some because there are two sides of the fence one on one side of the fence. You’ve got people

00:42:59.160 –> 00:43:18.510
Jacob Stoops: In I think rightfully so, defending the industry and the people in it as not all assholes. Okay. And that and that’s true. Like, we’re not all assholes. But there are some assholes. It’s just like other place on Earth. There are things in there. There are not assholes in any profession ever

00:43:19.230 –> 00:43:24.810
Casie Gillette: So, you know, there’s people that are in this industry that I like very much but they’re still assholes.

00:43:25.110 –> 00:43:26.280
Casie Gillette: Right, yeah.

00:43:26.490 –> 00:43:28.110
Jacob Stoops: There’s, there’s even that. But then there are

00:43:28.110 –> 00:43:28.530
Jeff Louella: People on

00:43:28.560 –> 00:43:35.310
Jacob Stoops: The other side of the fence. And this is where I feel like for me in terms of my opinion because I believe that when

00:43:35.580 –> 00:43:41.760
Jacob Stoops: We’re all being generalized as assholes. We have a right to push back. But there are people on the other side of the fence and

00:43:42.300 –> 00:43:53.100
Jacob Stoops: I don’t understand it quite as much and I’m trying really hard that in one case like Tom Raynor who was a was a previous guest on the show and sometimes has

00:43:53.580 –> 00:44:07.500
Jacob Stoops: Some, some opinions on this, this type of stuff basically getting upset at the people for defending the industry and pushing back on on this type of stuff in there were other people saying, hey,

00:44:08.190 –> 00:44:16.530
Jacob Stoops: You’re missing the point. You’re missing the point. And I agree, like, okay, what what’s great about this country is that people are allowed to have

00:44:16.890 –> 00:44:26.250
Jacob Stoops: Opinions and there is freedom of speech and that’s awesome, but there’s not freedom from accountability. Right. You have the right to say whatever the hell you want

00:44:26.610 –> 00:44:35.370
Jacob Stoops: And so to other people. And you mentioned earlier that Twitter is great for our Twitter wouldn’t exist if people didn’t arch. You didn’t argue

00:44:35.400 –> 00:44:37.860
Jacob Stoops: Yeah, absolutely. So anyways,

00:44:40.470 –> 00:44:41.010
Jeff Louella: Okay.

00:44:42.060 –> 00:44:44.130
Jacob Stoops: Anyway, so let’s so let’s move on. Let’s

00:44:44.310 –> 00:44:45.480
Casie Gillette: We can hang with us all day.

00:44:46.950 –> 00:44:59.910
Jacob Stoops: Let’s quickly. Let’s get into kind of the team building want to be respectful of time. So let’s jump into the team building component and deep dive on that really quickly. So, Casie. How do you build a good SEO team.

00:45:00.300 –> 00:45:03.540
Casie Gillette: Yeah, so this was something that I was asking.

00:45:04.380 –> 00:45:18.270
Casie Gillette: You know, five years ago, six years ago, like I said, when I came back to KoMarketing. Um, there were probably about eight people eight or nine people that were here at the time and you know we were growing and I realized that once you hit that 10 to 12 mark.

00:45:19.470 –> 00:45:29.940
Casie Gillette: You need things like processes which like I hate my life just like God, like, all right, we need to do something like how do we actually make this scalable.

00:45:30.720 –> 00:45:38.550
Casie Gillette: And so I started talking to just different people in the industry about how they have grown their teams, you know, I was talking to will Scott

00:45:39.420 –> 00:45:47.430
Casie Gillette: Talking to Mike Arneson about like what they do for training and, you know, just thinking what these people were telling me I was like okay like

00:45:47.880 –> 00:45:59.010
Casie Gillette: What we actually have to do is, is give people the tools that that are going to make them successful but also you have to give them the process to lead them there. And I think that’s something that I struggled with a little bit

00:45:59.940 –> 00:46:18.000
Casie Gillette: Because I just don’t love having to tell people to do something a certain way because especially with search. There’s so many nuances, you know, and I see people who are like, Okay, well, you told me that I have to have 60 characters. And so I have 16 and I’m like, Oh, no.

00:46:20.070 –> 00:46:20.850
Casie Gillette: I just had

00:46:20.940 –> 00:46:27.150
Jacob Stoops: Somebody today asked me how important the little green bubble is in the Yoast SEO plugin.

00:46:27.690 –> 00:46:37.170
Casie Gillette: Yeah yeah yeah yeah that’s fine. So like you have to consider all that but I mean one of the things that that we realized is

00:46:37.980 –> 00:46:40.620
Casie Gillette: One. You just have to we start people slow

00:46:41.280 –> 00:46:48.720
Casie Gillette: But we also give them that you know we give them templates for things and we give them the tools they need and we give them the information they needed and

00:46:49.020 –> 00:47:03.720
Casie Gillette: You know, now we have managers who are helping and there’s people above them who are we’re guiding them through the process, especially people who they don’t have any experience with SEO. Right. They don’t know what it is. So I would also say the one thing that we have certainly changed.

00:47:04.890 –> 00:47:12.810
Casie Gillette: Is focusing on the user. And that’s one thing that I tell people the team now especially new people.

00:47:13.290 –> 00:47:21.900
Casie Gillette: When it comes to things like keywords is I always tell them like think about the user first. And that’s something that even that I feel like has changed.

00:47:22.590 –> 00:47:34.380
Casie Gillette: But you have to really think through all of the nuances that come with search and and that’s tricky, but I think when you’re building your team, you know, you learn it as you go. I’m still learning new things every day.

00:47:35.610 –> 00:47:37.290
Jeff Louella: Yeah. It’s funny, I always tell

00:47:38.400 –> 00:47:40.410
Jeff Louella: There’s different everyone has different ways of doing things.

00:47:40.410 –> 00:47:41.010
Casie Gillette: Right.

00:47:41.160 –> 00:47:46.950
Jeff Louella: When it comes to the title tags. Like, I’m kind of the anti like pipe between like keyword pipe keyword pipe.

00:47:47.400 –> 00:47:58.710
Jeff Louella: And just I’d rather it read something better and. And at the end, it’s not even like I don’t like pipe client I like you know by client or something, some so read, you know, it’s like

00:47:59.130 –> 00:48:02.040
Jeff Louella: A new Nike sneakers. But, you know, from whoever and it’s

00:48:02.520 –> 00:48:12.660
Jeff Louella: And it just little things like that were getting people in brand new and SEO and they read a lot of articles you just end up seeing it, like, way more robotic than it needs to be. And

00:48:13.140 –> 00:48:13.920
And yeah.

00:48:15.180 –> 00:48:21.660
Jeff Louella: Jake’s working on a lot of training stuff where and our work and it’s kind of, it’s tough to get the full gamut of everything you do.

00:48:22.350 –> 00:48:29.700
Jeff Louella: In there, so we’re trying to build a slow kind of library of videos and that when someone new comes in, they can go through them.

00:48:30.210 –> 00:48:30.990
Casie Gillette: It’s a great idea.

00:48:31.260 –> 00:48:33.330
Jeff Louella: I think just the relationships between

00:48:34.380 –> 00:48:39.120
Jeff Louella: People senior people and junior people is where I think a lot of team building needs to come from. So

00:48:39.210 –> 00:48:41.130
Casie Gillette: Yeah, and I mean even thinking about

00:48:42.150 –> 00:48:49.860
Casie Gillette: Like, how are we starting them so like we don’t just immediately drop someone into like doing keyword research. For example,

00:48:50.340 –> 00:48:59.070
Casie Gillette: But what we might have them do is optimize a page which forces them to figure out like how do I find the right keywords and how do I make sure that

00:48:59.280 –> 00:49:05.850
Casie Gillette: I’m you know I’m whatever I’m changing still relates to the user. But it also forces them to go look at search result so

00:49:06.060 –> 00:49:15.690
Casie Gillette: You know, kind of easing them into all of the elements before saying like, all right, like I’m going to have you go do this, this full scope of keyword research or whatever it might be.

00:49:16.650 –> 00:49:20.730
Jacob Stoops: How do you when you’re bringing people into the team, right, there’s

00:49:21.300 –> 00:49:32.790
Jacob Stoops: Just like in sports, right, there’s, there’s the X’s and O’s. Right. But then there’s also an element that’s a little bit more on definable called chemistry right and fit.

00:49:33.240 –> 00:49:39.720
Jacob Stoops: Within the team structure. So when you’re bringing people in and it doesn’t just have to be intro people, it can be mid level and senior people

00:49:40.890 –> 00:49:50.820
Jacob Stoops: What are the characteristics of a person that you look for in terms of that person’s fit as you’re constructing your team. Yeah.

00:49:50.850 –> 00:49:54.060
Casie Gillette: We said, I mean as an organization, we sat down about two years ago.

00:49:54.330 –> 00:50:04.710
Casie Gillette: And it tried to answer that question because we were we, you know, we really wanted to take hiring, we really take it seriously because again we’re a small team. So the people that you’re hiring. You’re putting a lot of investment into that person.

00:50:05.040 –> 00:50:18.600
Casie Gillette: And what we figured out is the people that were looking for, they have to be self motivated. I think that’s the biggest thing is like, we don’t have time. I don’t have time to micromanage people and also who likes that. Like nobody

00:50:19.260 –> 00:50:32.340
Casie Gillette: Can nobody likes that. So you have to be an element of being self motivated and in this industry where things change, like we’re talking about, you need to go figure. You have to be curious. Right. You have to go figure out

00:50:32.910 –> 00:50:42.270
Casie Gillette: Well, I looked at the search result yesterday, and now I’m seeing something different, like why or like last week, my client was here and now they’re not why

00:50:42.990 –> 00:50:55.890
Casie Gillette: So I think between being self motivated and curious. Those are such like key elements for us in the desire to learn is a big one, a really big one. So I love when we interview someone

00:50:56.970 –> 00:51:00.870
Casie Gillette: Excuse. Excuse me. I love when we interview someone and they say,

00:51:01.740 –> 00:51:10.230
Casie Gillette: Yeah, well I’ve been doing this but I’m really interested in this. So, you know, I went in took like the Google Analytics test because I wanted to learn about it right or

00:51:10.410 –> 00:51:21.540
Casie Gillette: I went and looked at HubSpot x because I wanted to learn about it. That’s the stuff that really intrigues me and I’m like, all right, this person, this person is going to be a good fit. So

00:51:21.750 –> 00:51:35.790
Jacob Stoops: Are there ever and I want to be. We’re running out of time so I’m squeezing squeezing questions. Are there ever people that check those boxes, but then come in and still are in a culture fit and how do you, I guess. How do you figure that

00:51:36.210 –> 00:51:42.180
Casie Gillette: We, we haven’t we haven’t had that honestly it we’ve been so lucky. I met. Oh.

00:51:43.020 –> 00:51:47.490
Casie Gillette: But we do like when the people come in, like, we’re very we work in an open office.

00:51:47.790 –> 00:51:56.850
Casie Gillette: Right. And I’m very just apparent like the questions that we ask are, you know, the questions I asked her what type of environment. Are you looking for. How do you like to be managed. How do you learn

00:51:57.750 –> 00:52:04.800
Casie Gillette: You know what, what is your, your dream job. What you know those questions, kind of, they can give you a lot of insights into that.

00:52:05.160 –> 00:52:12.810
Casie Gillette: But we also will have, like, it’s not just the leadership team who’s interviewing these people. We have their peers come in and talk to them.

00:52:13.290 –> 00:52:21.810
Casie Gillette: We have a, you know, middle managers come in and talk to them. So, you know, at the end, we’re all deciding does this person seem like a fit. And I think that helps

00:52:23.100 –> 00:52:25.560
Casie Gillette: Okay, we’ve had like one, maybe, maybe there’s like one

00:52:28.950 –> 00:52:30.480
Casie Gillette: So we’ve been lucky I guess.

00:52:31.440 –> 00:52:37.500
Jeff Louella: Awesome. So if you know you ain’t got a couple drinks and you’re talking to the bartender and the bartender says

00:52:37.800 –> 00:52:46.770
Jeff Louella: Hey, I want to follow the same steps that you did. I want to get into SEO. What kind of advice would you give them to go like come from, like, you know, bartender waitress or, you know,

00:52:46.770 –> 00:52:48.660
Jeff Louella: Any type of job into the SEO world.

00:52:49.140 –> 00:52:52.200
Casie Gillette: I tell people all the time. Start build a website.

00:52:53.220 –> 00:52:55.230
Casie Gillette: Even though they’re not showing up in search results.

00:52:55.800 –> 00:53:00.180
Casie Gillette: You know, start playing around with WordPress. I think WordPress is the easiest place to start.

00:53:00.990 –> 00:53:09.450
Casie Gillette: But just building your own site. I think that’s your best test environment you’re never going to learn more. That’s how, like, I didn’t know HTML. When I was coming out of school.

00:53:09.990 –> 00:53:17.550
Casie Gillette: I just started playing around with it. I started building my own websites. I’ve read like I got like HTML for dummies. I own I bought SEO for dummies.

00:53:18.570 –> 00:53:18.900
Casie Gillette: Me.

00:53:20.130 –> 00:53:22.140
Casie Gillette: You learn this stuff by doing it.

00:53:22.200 –> 00:53:23.430
Casie Gillette: And that’s never in that goes

00:53:23.430 –> 00:53:30.030
Casie Gillette: Back to the start of our conversation on being in an agency where you have these different places to play and explore and

00:53:30.360 –> 00:53:38.070
Casie Gillette: I would say just go and I tell the team here. Like if you want to learn. People are like, oh, I want to learn HTML, you can, it’s, it’s not really that hard.

00:53:38.850 –> 00:53:55.950
Casie Gillette: There’s plenty of places to do these things, but go start go start playing around and read. I mean, I read an hour every day. So every I pay attention to what’s what’s whether it’s on Twitter, whether it’s on my feed Lee feeds. I still read every single day to learn what else is new.

00:53:58.080 –> 00:54:02.880
Jacob Stoops: Reading is very, very important and underrated skill in this industry.

00:54:03.990 –> 00:54:12.210
Jacob Stoops: Well. Casie I’m know you’re running out of time and have a hard stop wanted to thank you so much for coming on. Where can people find you.

00:54:12.540 –> 00:54:22.500
Casie Gillette: Yeah. Thanks for having me. This was fun. You can find me on twitter at Casie G. You can find me. I always say this, I’m LinkedIn. I’ve never on LinkedIn. Don’t find me there.

00:54:24.480 –> 00:54:26.580
Casie Gillette: Find me at KoMarketing com

00:54:27.030 –> 00:54:28.410
Jeff Louella: Cool, thank you so much.

00:54:28.410 –> 00:54:34.950
Jacob Stoops: For coming on and I know our audience will will love your episode. It was a great, great discussion.

00:54:35.550 –> 00:54:37.020
Casie Gillette: Well, thanks. It’s good to talk to you guys.

00:54:37.200 –> 00:54:37.680
Jacob Stoops: Thank you.

00:54:37.740 –> 00:54:38.280
To talk to you.

#31: Angela Bergmann

Episode Summary

In this episode, we’re chatting with Angela Bergmann, Senior SEO Strategist at Advance Local and fellow Ohioan! 

We talk about: 

Episode Transcript

00:00:02.280 –> 00:00:09.480
Jacob Stoops: Hey everybody this is Jacob stoops again here with the Page 2 Podcast. How’s everybody doing?

00:00:10.380 –> 00:00:12.960
Angela Bergmann: Right, assuming everybody’s doing great.

00:00:13.349 –> 00:00:16.410
Jacob Stoops: We’re also here with Mr. Jeff, Louella

00:00:17.910 –> 00:00:18.210
Jeff Louella: Hey,

00:00:19.470 –> 00:00:23.790
Jacob Stoops: Jeff, I’m gonna need you to be a little bit more boisterous with your intro

00:00:25.380 –> 00:00:26.850
Jacob Stoops: Your two weeks out from me.

00:00:26.850 –> 00:00:27.330
Jacob Stoops: Forgetting

00:00:28.410 –> 00:00:32.640
Jacob Stoops: So like, I’m thinking you’re really coming into your own. So that’s one give me

00:00:32.880 –> 00:00:33.180
Jacob Stoops: More

00:00:33.240 –> 00:00:33.840
Jacob Stoops: Give me a little more

00:00:34.560 –> 00:00:35.730
Jeff Louella: Know, everybody.

00:00:35.850 –> 00:00:36.540
Jacob Stoops: Here we go.

00:00:36.840 –> 00:00:38.130
Jacob Stoops: And then we are

00:00:39.000 –> 00:00:40.200
Angela Bergmann: Here with

00:00:40.230 –> 00:00:42.600
Jacob Stoops: Angela Berkman. How are you doing, Angela.

00:00:43.860 –> 00:00:47.550
Angela Bergmann: Fantastic. How are you guys doing we’re doing

00:00:47.640 –> 00:00:57.900
Jacob Stoops: Awesome. Actually, I’m not doing awesome. I have to confess about 45 minutes ago. And I’m gonna I’m gonna deviate into a quick story. I got an email.

00:00:58.230 –> 00:00:59.250
Angela Bergmann: From GoDaddy.

00:00:59.280 –> 00:00:59.880
Angela Bergmann: Who I

00:01:00.000 –> 00:01:02.670
Jacob Stoops: Use for hosting. I don’t know why I use them and

00:01:02.670 –> 00:01:04.410
Jacob Stoops: I’m sure people will yell at me about that.

00:01:04.410 –> 00:01:04.620
Angela Bergmann: But

00:01:04.650 –> 00:01:13.950
Jacob Stoops: It’s just been who I’ve been using. And I’ve been too lazy to switch that I bought some new Linux hosting and I did not buy

00:01:15.060 –> 00:01:15.540
Jacob Stoops: 45

00:01:15.570 –> 00:01:16.170
Angela Bergmann: Minutes ago and

00:01:17.490 –> 00:01:17.940
Jacob Stoops: 45

00:01:17.970 –> 00:01:19.500
Jacob Stoops: Minutes ago so I

00:01:20.670 –> 00:01:25.560
Jacob Stoops: Just before we all jumped on had to call it GoDaddy customer service to

00:01:26.610 –> 00:01:29.640
Jacob Stoops: One cancel that order because I did not lie.

00:01:30.390 –> 00:01:30.660
Jacob Stoops: Yeah.

00:01:31.080 –> 00:01:35.670
Jacob Stoops: And to figure out, like, who the hell hacked my account and

00:01:35.760 –> 00:01:37.350
Jacob Stoops: I came to find out that

00:01:37.380 –> 00:01:47.850
Jacob Stoops: One domain. I own. And I’m going to have to take care of it after we after we finished recording is actually now a Russian gambling websites. So it looks like

00:01:47.850 –> 00:01:49.350
Angela Bergmann: There’s been some Russian

00:01:50.460 –> 00:01:50.820
Jeff Louella: Again,

00:01:51.000 –> 00:01:52.290
Jacob Stoops: Yeah, the account. The Russian

00:01:52.830 –> 00:01:54.960
Angela Bergmann: lessons are trying to get in and impersonate me

00:01:55.410 –> 00:01:57.930
Jacob Stoops: And in fact, seem to have called GoDaddy.

00:01:58.260 –> 00:02:00.840
Jacob Stoops: With my information and ordered

00:02:01.440 –> 00:02:05.640
Jacob Stoops: The hosting for, for whatever reason, so yeah.

00:02:06.300 –> 00:02:06.330
Angela Bergmann: I

00:02:06.600 –> 00:02:07.740
Jacob Stoops: Had to reset my password.

00:02:08.310 –> 00:02:11.070
Jacob Stoops: That up some two factor authentication and

00:02:12.210 –> 00:02:13.500
Jacob Stoops: I’m coming into this

00:02:14.460 –> 00:02:16.710
Jacob Stoops: A little bit annoyed doesn’t know.

00:02:18.810 –> 00:02:21.660
Angela Bergmann: We all want to spend our Friday. Right, exactly.

00:02:22.080 –> 00:02:24.300
Jacob Stoops: Exactly dealing with Russian interference.

00:02:24.720 –> 00:02:25.140

00:02:27.300 –> 00:02:28.860
Jacob Stoops: Anyways, so

00:02:29.310 –> 00:02:32.190
Jacob Stoops: Angela good authority.

00:02:32.220 –> 00:02:33.420
Jacob Stoops: That you are a senior

00:02:33.420 –> 00:02:45.240
Jacob Stoops: SEO strategist and advanced local and I’ll have you know that you are the first Ohio and that we’ve brought on and not to say that you’re the you’re the first native Ohio.

00:02:45.810 –> 00:02:47.160
Angela Bergmann: Some other folks in

00:02:47.160 –> 00:03:01.410
Jacob Stoops: Native to Ohio, but they don’t live there. Now, you’re the first one that actually still lives in Ohio and and in terms of proximity. I’m in Columbus, you’re, you’re the closest interviewee to me in terms of actual proximity so

00:03:01.410 –> 00:03:03.300
Angela Bergmann: Congratulations Ohio pride.

00:03:03.450 –> 00:03:05.400
Angela Bergmann: Yay so guys

00:03:08.010 –> 00:03:08.640
Jacob Stoops: I oh

00:03:11.040 –> 00:03:11.730
Angela Bergmann: That’s all I know.

00:03:12.090 –> 00:03:13.830
Angela Bergmann: And people and people who do not

00:03:13.830 –> 00:03:18.210
Jacob Stoops: Follow. Follow college football are going to have no idea what actually do not follow Ohio State or

00:03:18.720 –> 00:03:19.890
Jacob Stoops: No idea what just happened.

00:03:19.920 –> 00:03:24.750
Angela Bergmann: You play hang on sloopy and will be good. Exactly, exactly.

00:03:24.780 –> 00:03:25.200

00:03:26.610 –> 00:03:27.780
Angela Bergmann: You are in

00:03:29.340 –> 00:03:30.690
Jacob Stoops: I can’t remember. Did you say you

00:03:30.690 –> 00:03:31.950
Jacob Stoops: Work in Akron and live in

00:03:31.950 –> 00:03:33.360
Jacob Stoops: Cleveland or live in Cleveland.

00:03:33.360 –> 00:03:34.680
Jacob Stoops: And work in Akron.

00:03:35.670 –> 00:03:39.870
Angela Bergmann: Upset I live in Akron, and I work in Cleveland. OK, so the

00:03:40.260 –> 00:03:42.090
Angela Bergmann: Branded up to

00:03:42.120 –> 00:03:42.540

00:03:44.640 –> 00:03:52.770
Angela Bergmann: Cool, I am I work in the land and I’m from where LeBron is from actually the same part of accurate. Even so, I have a lot of games pride.

00:03:53.490 –> 00:03:54.930
Jeff Louella: Yeah. Brown of SEO.

00:03:55.020 –> 00:03:56.760
Jacob Stoops: You go to his, his high school

00:03:57.210 –> 00:03:58.080
Jacob Stoops: St. Vincent St.

00:03:59.250 –> 00:04:06.180
Angela Bergmann: No, actually I went to the school. He didn’t go to because he went to private school. Okay.

00:04:08.730 –> 00:04:09.810
Angela Bergmann: Okay. All right.

00:04:11.340 –> 00:04:12.120
Jacob Stoops: So,

00:04:13.980 –> 00:04:20.250
Jacob Stoops: I have to ask you before we get into your background on another tangent. Did you watch the Browns game last Thursday.

00:04:21.240 –> 00:04:23.730
Angela Bergmann: Oh yeah, oh yeah, totally. What

00:04:24.120 –> 00:04:24.900
Angela Bergmann: Happened. I’ve got

00:04:24.930 –> 00:04:27.420
Jacob Stoops: Like I feel like I’ve haven’t been able to talk to

00:04:27.420 –> 00:04:28.680
Jacob Stoops: anybody except maybe my

00:04:29.400 –> 00:04:30.030
Angela Bergmann: Basically just

00:04:30.570 –> 00:04:32.130
Jacob Stoops: Knowing about the whole situation.

00:04:32.130 –> 00:04:32.400

00:04:33.420 –> 00:04:34.440
Jacob Stoops: What the hell happened like

00:04:34.440 –> 00:04:37.170
Jacob Stoops: What’s going on here with with our brownies and

00:04:37.170 –> 00:04:38.460
Jacob Stoops: Mr. Miles, yo.

00:04:39.720 –> 00:04:47.730
Angela Bergmann: It’s the it’s the we hate the Steelers so it’s already going to be a contentious game and then like I’m obviously mad at Garrett

00:04:48.780 –> 00:04:57.420
Angela Bergmann: Acting like an idiot. I’m sitting Rudolph from the head, but his helmet. Getting down the line, you know, open Joby shoving in not good.

00:04:57.900 –> 00:05:09.840
Angela Bergmann: You know, but like Rudolph not getting any punishment for escalating the fight is what makes me mad. And the other thing that makes me mad, is that I know that they’re escalating punishments for things, but like

00:05:11.520 –> 00:05:26.730
Angela Bergmann: Convicted wife leaders get a 16 suspension yep and Garrett getting an indefinite suspension for hitting a guy on the field during a fight that was escalated with a helmet. Yeah, use a little unfair.

00:05:28.950 –> 00:05:29.160
Angela Bergmann: Yeah.

00:05:30.240 –> 00:05:32.040
Angela Bergmann: It’s fun got

00:05:32.670 –> 00:05:36.090
Jacob Stoops: Kareem hunt on our team and we’re not fielding a team.

00:05:36.090 –> 00:05:38.850
Angela Bergmann: Full of choir boys. Yeah, yeah.

00:05:39.150 –> 00:05:42.870
Jacob Stoops: Eight games for reading a woman and

00:05:43.650 –> 00:05:43.830
Angela Bergmann: It.

00:05:43.920 –> 00:05:44.880
Jacob Stoops: hits a quarterback.

00:05:45.210 –> 00:05:48.300
Jacob Stoops: In his head with a helmet. Now granted, he could have killed him. So there is

00:05:49.800 –> 00:05:50.580
Angela Bergmann: Reacting with

00:05:50.910 –> 00:05:51.660
Angela Bergmann: Coca Cola.

00:05:52.410 –> 00:05:53.730
Jeff Louella: In depth. I saw him kicker.

00:05:54.330 –> 00:06:11.160
Angela Bergmann: Though yeah open Jovi like Patsy kicking him while he’s down and it’s not pounds. He got lucky that he didn’t actually really connect too much, but he was kicking. Yeah. Garrett while he was down in like none of them are choirboys without this is like this.

00:06:11.250 –> 00:06:13.020
Jacob Stoops: This all happened with eight seconds.

00:06:13.020 –> 00:06:15.450
Angela Bergmann: Left and to like put in perspective.

00:06:15.480 –> 00:06:16.860
Jacob Stoops: The long history that

00:06:16.890 –> 00:06:19.050
Angela Bergmann: We have as as as

00:06:19.140 –> 00:06:22.800
Jacob Stoops: browns fans honestly as as Cleveland fan South

00:06:22.800 –> 00:06:24.750
Angela Bergmann: Until the Cavs championship. A few

00:06:24.750 –> 00:06:29.010
Jacob Stoops: Years ago, being a Cleveland fan over the course of the last 30 or 40

00:06:29.460 –> 00:06:31.140
Angela Bergmann: Years 20 years

00:06:31.200 –> 00:06:32.430
Angela Bergmann: It’s been just complete

00:06:32.430 –> 00:06:34.260
Jacob Stoops: Misery and with the browns. Yeah.

00:06:34.560 –> 00:06:37.740
Angela Bergmann: You’re sick. First off, our team was taken.

00:06:37.740 –> 00:06:39.300
Jacob Stoops: Away then came back.

00:06:40.140 –> 00:06:40.800
Angela Bergmann: Garbage.

00:06:40.920 –> 00:06:43.170
Jacob Stoops: Since it came back. Yeah, they

00:06:43.260 –> 00:06:44.040
Jacob Stoops: Always

00:06:44.130 –> 00:06:49.830
Jacob Stoops: Find a way to disappoint us so like to really put it in perspective, this is the first

00:06:50.040 –> 00:06:51.270
Angela Bergmann: Factory sadness.

00:06:51.450 –> 00:06:53.340
Jacob Stoops: Are two rivals in the same season.

00:06:53.340 –> 00:06:55.710
Jacob Stoops: That being the Steelers and the Ravens.

00:06:56.310 –> 00:06:58.620
Angela Bergmann: And I was, I was on cloud nine. I was like, yes.

00:06:58.860 –> 00:07:00.120
Jacob Stoops: We didn’t just beat the Steelers

00:07:02.460 –> 00:07:04.200
Angela Bergmann: I’m sitting there going like this is great.

00:07:04.230 –> 00:07:04.950
Jacob Stoops: This is great.

00:07:05.580 –> 00:07:06.180
Jacob Stoops: And then with

00:07:06.210 –> 00:07:07.350
Angela Bergmann: Eight seconds left.

00:07:07.380 –> 00:07:18.180
Jacob Stoops: We see this kind of melee and like my heart sinks and I’m like, they couldn’t they couldn’t allow us as fans to get out of this game without disappointing us

00:07:18.540 –> 00:07:19.470
Jacob Stoops: One more, one

00:07:19.710 –> 00:07:21.450
Jacob Stoops: More time as a brown

00:07:21.750 –> 00:07:24.060
Angela Bergmann: Exactly. For the other shoe to

00:07:24.060 –> 00:07:27.030
Jacob Stoops: Drop and like we’re gonna win the

00:07:27.150 –> 00:07:29.880
Jacob Stoops: Game and the other shoe isn’t going to drop and then Frank or

00:07:30.510 –> 00:07:32.880
Jacob Stoops: prompt me it was like, Nope. Nope.

00:07:33.030 –> 00:07:33.630
Jacob Stoops: Yeah, there’s

00:07:34.200 –> 00:07:38.940
Jacob Stoops: just dropped in a big way in an embarrassingly Cleveland way so

00:07:39.240 –> 00:07:39.510

00:07:42.300 –> 00:07:45.420
Angela Bergmann: Have factory and stab this yeah it is the factory of

00:07:45.420 –> 00:07:46.140
Jacob Stoops: Sadness. So

00:07:48.180 –> 00:07:48.540
Jacob Stoops: The

00:07:48.570 –> 00:07:49.770
Jacob Stoops: The unimportant stuff.

00:07:49.770 –> 00:07:50.940
Angela Bergmann: Like important

00:07:51.210 –> 00:07:53.160
Jacob Stoops: So, Angela. Tell us about your

00:07:53.280 –> 00:07:54.390

00:07:54.390 –> 00:07:55.440
Angela Bergmann: You come from, who are

00:07:55.440 –> 00:07:55.770
Jacob Stoops: You

00:07:55.800 –> 00:07:56.910
Jacob Stoops: How did you get into SEO.

00:07:58.620 –> 00:08:11.940
Angela Bergmann: So I got into SEO through Twitter really in like 2007 so taking it all the way back. I decided when we got our first desktop computer, and like 2000 that

00:08:12.390 –> 00:08:25.680
Angela Bergmann: Websites look really cool. I want to learn how to do that. So I taught myself how to build websites I started doing like personal journaling, as it was back then. Like you buy a domain and you create a journal online.

00:08:27.240 –> 00:08:34.590
Angela Bergmann: Got into content management systems as they were coming around. So like gray matter be to movable type

00:08:35.370 –> 00:08:52.410
Angela Bergmann: Got into WordPress got very heavily into using WordPress and like the personal website scene because that was pretty popular with like teenage girls and like early 20s adult girls, creating just personal lifestyle type sites, what we essentially consider it now.

00:08:54.150 –> 00:08:57.630
Angela Bergmann: And I got super into social media because that was a big part of that scene.

00:08:59.070 –> 00:09:08.520
Angela Bergmann: I was, I was working retail like cashier and I was super into social media playing video games doing websites and

00:09:09.810 –> 00:09:25.050
Angela Bergmann: Guy that I followed on Twitter that we had a lot of music in common with like, hey, I see you’re really good at building like WordPress sites. You’re really good at social media. We need an intern at our marketing agency. Would you be interested. And I was like, yeah.

00:09:27.600 –> 00:09:38.070
Angela Bergmann: I interviewed started internship got hired in and they taught me SEO, and PPC and kind of like where to start learning more about it and how to like pick up on it.

00:09:38.520 –> 00:09:49.980
Angela Bergmann: And I just got super into it from there and just kind of took off and I i went back and forth for a while, between like web development and then digital marketing, but

00:09:50.640 –> 00:09:59.070
Angela Bergmann: I always really liked SEO and SEO is where I really love to be and that’s finally where I get to be kind of little time after spending time doing a little bit of everything.

00:10:00.690 –> 00:10:04.230
Jacob Stoops: So what brought you to advance local

00:10:06.330 –> 00:10:11.700
Angela Bergmann: So I wanted the the advanced local because I love doing agency work.

00:10:12.750 –> 00:10:20.640
Angela Bergmann: I know that’s not typical for a lot of SEO is a lot of SEOs that I run into like to be like the in house person doing the super deep dive.

00:10:21.210 –> 00:10:30.660
Angela Bergmann: Looking through logs that kind of stuff. Whereas I really like the fast paced nature of agency work and day to day. I don’t know what vertical I’ll be looking at

00:10:31.890 –> 00:10:42.210
Angela Bergmann: So you know I have clients that run the gamut from, you know, roofers to nonprofit foundations. So it really is everybody. And I love that.

00:10:43.800 –> 00:10:53.640
Jacob Stoops: So one question I have to ask them is, so you said you love agency work, you’re, you’re, I think, a rare, rare breed.

00:10:53.730 –> 00:10:54.750
Angela Bergmann: I also

00:10:55.170 –> 00:11:00.900
Jacob Stoops: Feel like I’m a better fit in agency, a I call an agency world because it’s just this crazy

00:11:02.730 –> 00:11:04.410
Jacob Stoops: Difficult monster of a

00:11:04.650 –> 00:11:05.130
Angela Bergmann: Stress

00:11:05.250 –> 00:11:07.830
Jacob Stoops: stress ball that I seem to thrive.

00:11:07.890 –> 00:11:09.360
Angela Bergmann: In, and I think that there are

00:11:09.360 –> 00:11:10.020
Angela Bergmann: Very few.

00:11:10.950 –> 00:11:15.000
Jacob Stoops: Lot of people working in what I call agency agency world.

00:11:16.050 –> 00:11:19.860
Jacob Stoops: Not everybody’s a good fit for it. Some people are a better fit for

00:11:19.920 –> 00:11:21.210
Angela Bergmann: In house so like

00:11:21.750 –> 00:11:35.460
Jacob Stoops: Aside from just it being fast paced. What I guess intrinsic qualities do you feel like you have that sort of lend you to that versus being on the House side.

00:11:37.410 –> 00:11:50.310
Angela Bergmann: So, and this is one of the things that I really look for when I’m when I’m hiring people for our team is I look for agency SEO, you have to have a desire to know something about everything.

00:11:51.510 –> 00:11:59.670
Angela Bergmann: Not even necessarily super in depth because when you’re on the agency side you’re for a long time, you’re usually a little bit more high level. I feel like

00:12:00.270 –> 00:12:08.760
Angela Bergmann: But you need to have a willingness to be knowledgeable about everything and have that desire to learn about things that have nothing to do with your personal life.

00:12:09.600 –> 00:12:20.220
Angela Bergmann: I know way more about Windows and any girl could ever want to know, but it’s because of my, my client is. And it’s not because I necessarily interested in it, but I consume knowledge.

00:12:20.760 –> 00:12:21.360
Jeff Louella: I know more about

00:12:21.660 –> 00:12:22.680
I think you take

00:12:25.650 –> 00:12:34.440
Angela Bergmann: Like, Oh man, I just, I really needed to know which window would be perfect, which vinyl window would be perfect for my, you know, turn of the century home yeah

00:12:37.080 –> 00:12:37.620
That’s right.

00:12:38.970 –> 00:12:43.500
Angela Bergmann: But you combine that with I think people that work really well on agency.

00:12:46.350 –> 00:12:58.530
Angela Bergmann: Are those people that like to procrastinate because we work better under pressure and agency is constant pressures. So we constantly have that stimulation that we feel like we need to produce our best work.

00:13:00.900 –> 00:13:01.350
Jacob Stoops: There.

00:13:01.650 –> 00:13:02.730
Angela Bergmann: There is

00:13:03.630 –> 00:13:06.540
Jacob Stoops: I do find that there’s more pressure working

00:13:06.600 –> 00:13:09.240
Angela Bergmann: In the agency environment.

00:13:09.300 –> 00:13:16.770
Jacob Stoops: And there’s more. There’s definitely more variability, you’re not working on the same thing every day, you’re not working in the same industry.

00:13:16.770 –> 00:13:18.510
Angela Bergmann: Every day, and

00:13:19.530 –> 00:13:32.940
Jacob Stoops: For me, that’s nice. I could see where for other people. That would be pretty obnoxious and there have been times in my career where I when I have gone to the in house side where that’s what I thought I wanted

00:13:34.350 –> 00:13:46.500
Jacob Stoops: In there are times where, like, I was pretty fulfilled doing that coming to work and working on the, the same thing every day. But something about the the

00:13:47.190 –> 00:14:05.850
Jacob Stoops: competitive nature. I feel like this is not to say that in house SEOs are not great, because there are many, many great in house SEOs but I feel like the amount of pressure to drive impact leads me to be better at my job. And I think that you get more creativity.

00:14:07.080 –> 00:14:17.190
Jacob Stoops: Out of that because people are constantly trying to think ahead trying to work ahead, trying to make sure in that short time time span that you have, which is usually

00:14:17.820 –> 00:14:33.930
Jacob Stoops: Three, six, or 12 months, your contract in which the you’re getting evaluated and people are deciding whether or not to pay you based on your performance. And a lot of times because implementation is really hard. You’re not getting your recommendations implemented until well

00:14:33.960 –> 00:14:35.640
Angela Bergmann: Into that contract. Yeah.

00:14:35.820 –> 00:14:36.150

00:14:38.160 –> 00:14:39.180
Jacob Stoops: Aggressive and that

00:14:39.180 –> 00:14:41.640
Jacob Stoops: Means you have to be. We have to be on the cutting

00:14:41.670 –> 00:14:42.690
Angela Bergmann: Edge and that’s

00:14:43.410 –> 00:14:46.110
Jacob Stoops: That’s where I like to. I like to live. I like to live dangerously

00:14:46.110 –> 00:15:00.000
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, yeah, you get some you get some try. I feel like I guess a trial. A lot of fun thing because I have like that handful of clients that wants to be cutting edge. So they’re willing to pay to try the thing

00:15:01.380 –> 00:15:02.310
Jacob Stoops: What is the

00:15:02.670 –> 00:15:09.870
Jacob Stoops: area of expertise that you have, because you’ve worked on a particular client that is the furthest

00:15:09.870 –> 00:15:10.980
Angela Bergmann: Thing from your

00:15:11.160 –> 00:15:14.880
Jacob Stoops: Personality, or maybe the oddest thing for you. Besides windows.

00:15:17.220 –> 00:15:18.030
Angela Bergmann: So,

00:15:20.550 –> 00:15:25.560
Angela Bergmann: Probably um that’s so tough because I

00:15:28.650 –> 00:15:34.740
Angela Bergmann: I’m such a crazy knowledge person. I feel like everything is relevant to me because I want to know things about everything.

00:15:35.280 –> 00:15:46.980
Angela Bergmann: I probably autos, I’m not super into cars. I’m just not. But I’ve come up with some very creative ways to address SEO for automotive clients.

00:15:47.490 –> 00:15:57.570
Angela Bergmann: Because they have those inherent difficulties that come with like the content management and like inventory management system they’re locked into their page speed is always going to be terrible.

00:15:58.020 –> 00:16:09.270
Angela Bergmann: It’s a given they’re going to have technical things that we’re never going to be able to touch and there’s no point even reporting on it because they’re just, there’s no hope there.

00:16:09.870 –> 00:16:18.870
Angela Bergmann: So I have kind of work to figure out, like, what can we do that will make an effect and actually show some organic growth for them. Um,

00:16:20.370 –> 00:16:21.240
Angela Bergmann: Without

00:16:21.570 –> 00:16:24.450
Angela Bergmann: Having to get into the things that we would typically want to touch.

00:16:25.860 –> 00:16:27.000
Angela Bergmann: Jeff, you work on a

00:16:27.330 –> 00:16:29.820
Jacob Stoops: Pretty well known who will not be named here.

00:16:29.880 –> 00:16:31.320
Jacob Stoops: Automotive client.

00:16:31.440 –> 00:16:32.610
What are your thoughts about that.

00:16:33.750 –> 00:16:34.080
Jeff Louella: Well,

00:16:34.200 –> 00:16:37.500
Jeff Louella: That’s automotive parts, so it is what e commerce, but

00:16:37.650 –> 00:16:39.300
Some of those parts are so

00:16:40.500 –> 00:16:41.190
Jeff Louella: Specific

00:16:42.570 –> 00:16:42.930
Jeff Louella: And

00:16:43.380 –> 00:16:43.950
Jeff Louella: It is

00:16:44.190 –> 00:16:47.460
Jeff Louella: There’s a ton of competition out there. Right, so it’s it’s

00:16:47.520 –> 00:16:49.980
Jeff Louella: It’s interesting. I’m, I’m always battling

00:16:50.040 –> 00:16:51.480
Angela Bergmann: That aspect of just like

00:16:52.140 –> 00:16:54.690
Jeff Louella: We have an oxygen sensor. It’s like

00:16:54.900 –> 00:16:57.390
Jeff Louella: I get every site has it out there. How do we

00:16:57.420 –> 00:17:00.360
Jeff Louella: Kind of get it out, but they are very

00:17:01.080 –> 00:17:01.410
Angela Bergmann: You know,

00:17:01.470 –> 00:17:03.000
Angela Bergmann: A lot of it is, but I’m

00:17:03.060 –> 00:17:04.500
Jeff Louella: Fighting is like kind of having

00:17:05.070 –> 00:17:15.180
Jeff Louella: Content like trying to build it up to where like your average consumers, looking at it. But the way that the automotive parts world works. It’s like by part numbers, most of the time. Right, so you

00:17:15.210 –> 00:17:15.900
Jeff Louella: Get number

00:17:16.290 –> 00:17:16.800
Jeff Louella: And it’s like,

00:17:16.830 –> 00:17:21.630
Jeff Louella: You’re optimizing for part number and more than someone’s looking for specific

00:17:22.770 –> 00:17:35.910
Jeff Louella: You know, general terms like brake pads or grades for me. He’s not a car person looking. But for someone who’s actually like at an auto shop. They need part, you know, ML or 973 and that comes up first.

00:17:35.940 –> 00:17:38.190
Jeff Louella: Yep. So it’s an interesting

00:17:38.280 –> 00:17:50.220
Jeff Louella: Mix there because every like more people search for Breitbart, then that bottle number, but that model number converts it like 90% while the other one converts at point 1% so it’s

00:17:50.700 –> 00:17:55.530
Angela Bergmann: Exactly. So how are we going to write content to target the actual conversion. Exactly.

00:17:55.890 –> 00:18:01.470
Angela Bergmann: So how do we beat out the other people who use the same exact model number is part of my issues. Yeah, yeah.

00:18:02.280 –> 00:18:05.460
Angela Bergmann: Oh yeah, I’ve done that, I, I’ve also worked with a lot of like

00:18:06.480 –> 00:18:15.900
Angela Bergmann: Manufacturers where their target audience is knows that they need the part that this place makes but they have no idea what it’s called. They just know that they need it.

00:18:17.310 –> 00:18:18.390
Angela Bergmann: Those are always fun.

00:18:19.470 –> 00:18:23.160
Angela Bergmann: Hoping engineers find engineer good time.

00:18:23.850 –> 00:18:24.270
Angela Bergmann: Yeah.

00:18:25.140 –> 00:18:26.670
Angela Bergmann: I have a like one

00:18:26.700 –> 00:18:31.260
Jeff Louella: Thing that I know way too much about besides wedding dresses that I’ve never do that. I would

00:18:31.260 –> 00:18:31.500
Angela Bergmann: Like

00:18:31.560 –> 00:18:33.150
Jeff Louella: Working in the agency world and it’s

00:18:33.150 –> 00:18:33.390
Angela Bergmann: Like

00:18:33.660 –> 00:18:36.300
Jeff Louella: feeding tubes is one that I like.

00:18:36.570 –> 00:18:38.580
Angela Bergmann: Oh yeah. This is especially them into

00:18:38.580 –> 00:18:46.830
Jeff Louella: Now, which is something that I like. I hope no one ever has to learn about but you know now that like there is a major

00:18:47.910 –> 00:18:51.330
Jeff Louella: concern out there when you do need it. So it’s like, how do we know

00:18:52.260 –> 00:18:57.720
Jeff Louella: It’s just weird marketing, things like that, because it’s just like something you expect your doctor. Just to give to you, but

00:18:58.140 –> 00:19:08.820
Jeff Louella: Our brands out there just like you see commercials on prescription TVs, like you get my arthritis medication or get my, you know, I had this where skin disease and you know there’s

00:19:08.850 –> 00:19:11.430
Jeff Louella: Only three drugs out there, but we need to be number one over those

00:19:11.430 –> 00:19:17.700
Jeff Louella: Three and and that’s kind of where I am with in the evening to world right now. It’s kind of interesting.

00:19:17.730 –> 00:19:29.580
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, no. And it’s true like medicals one of those verticals. That’s like personal and professional interest for me so I know way more about medical stuff than any one person probably others.

00:19:31.560 –> 00:19:40.650
Angela Bergmann: But yeah, there’s so many intricacies to it like is your target audience patients, is it caregivers, is it Doctor Is it manufacturers, distributors like

00:19:41.400 –> 00:19:50.730
Angela Bergmann: People don’t think about that side as well. Yeah, yeah. All of the above. So which different types of which different things, are we going to do to address each different audience. Yeah.

00:19:51.000 –> 00:19:52.110
Jeff Louella: All one site that’s already

00:19:52.230 –> 00:19:52.740
Angela Bergmann: It’s like you’re

00:19:52.800 –> 00:19:55.620
Jeff Louella: You’re trying to get to the consumer, but doctors also and

00:19:56.010 –> 00:19:58.260
Angela Bergmann: Mostly the people at hospitals that are ordering

00:19:58.680 –> 00:20:01.620
Jeff Louella: You know, it’s like, those are the people who are actually buying because

00:20:01.740 –> 00:20:02.850
Jeff Louella: As a consumer, you’re not

00:20:02.850 –> 00:20:05.640
Angela Bergmann: Necessarily buying insurance for the most part.

00:20:06.180 –> 00:20:07.380
Jeff Louella: So it’s kind of getting them. Yeah.

00:20:07.410 –> 00:20:08.670
Jeff Louella: Exactly and

00:20:08.940 –> 00:20:10.830
Jeff Louella: And computers at hospitals to you.

00:20:13.170 –> 00:20:23.220
Jacob Stoops: Yep. So I don’t know if you guys know this but Columbus, Ohio is a hub for fashion retailers.

00:20:23.760 –> 00:20:24.810
Angela Bergmann: That you didn’t know

00:20:25.410 –> 00:20:26.970
Angela Bergmann: That going in. Yeah.

00:20:27.060 –> 00:20:28.290
Jacob Stoops: Victoria Secret

00:20:29.130 –> 00:20:29.760
Jacob Stoops: The Lunatic.

00:20:30.510 –> 00:20:31.560
Angela Bergmann: Lane Bryant.

00:20:32.550 –> 00:20:34.740
Angela Bergmann: Abercrombie and Fitch all

00:20:34.920 –> 00:20:43.950
Jacob Stoops: Based in Columbus, Ohio, which is crazy. And the reason I say that is because that is my weird really weird one.

00:20:45.150 –> 00:20:45.660
Jacob Stoops: So this

00:20:45.810 –> 00:20:47.160
Angela Bergmann: Is not recent like

00:20:47.220 –> 00:20:48.810
Angela Bergmann: I don’t know anything about fashion. I

00:20:48.810 –> 00:20:49.350
Jacob Stoops: Really don’t

00:20:50.700 –> 00:20:51.570
Jacob Stoops: I can barely get up.

00:20:51.630 –> 00:20:52.200
Jacob Stoops: Pick up my

00:20:52.230 –> 00:20:52.980
Angela Bergmann: Pick out my clothes.

00:20:53.160 –> 00:20:54.540
Jacob Stoops: In the morning, and usually like

00:20:54.600 –> 00:20:55.770
It’s just t shirt energy

00:20:56.910 –> 00:20:57.540
Jacob Stoops: So,

00:20:58.620 –> 00:21:10.590
Jacob Stoops: I’ve worked on a fashion retailer, not one of those that I named a couple of years ago in more than a couple. It was it was before I had a family. So my my oldest son is six years old.

00:21:11.250 –> 00:21:21.360
Jacob Stoops: So this predates predates him so it was before. I should have known anything about children’s clothing and

00:21:22.530 –> 00:21:28.110
Jacob Stoops: I was, I was working on a fashion site for young girls.

00:21:29.190 –> 00:21:29.640
Jacob Stoops: Which

00:21:29.700 –> 00:21:30.030

00:21:31.230 –> 00:21:32.190
Angela Bergmann: Was so

00:21:32.250 –> 00:21:33.900
Jacob Stoops: Like for me as like

00:21:33.960 –> 00:21:35.340
Jacob Stoops: A young

00:21:35.790 –> 00:21:38.820
Jacob Stoops: Not even married at the time person without

00:21:39.090 –> 00:21:40.860
Jacob Stoops: Kids felt so

00:21:40.860 –> 00:21:42.990
Jacob Stoops: weird and creepy and I like

00:21:43.260 –> 00:21:52.110
Jacob Stoops: As I was working on. I was proud to be working on the brand but also I was like, I’m not going to show anybody my search history because if they saw it without

00:21:52.110 –> 00:21:52.740

00:21:54.300 –> 00:21:56.160
Angela Bergmann: Giant creep so

00:21:57.870 –> 00:21:59.670
Angela Bergmann: That’s my, that’s my weird one and

00:21:59.670 –> 00:22:01.410
Jacob Stoops: It was just, it wasn’t like anything.

00:22:01.440 –> 00:22:02.220
Angela Bergmann: Weird like

00:22:02.940 –> 00:22:08.010
Jacob Stoops: Victoria’s Secret lingerie or anything like that, or anything. It was just normal clothing.

00:22:08.430 –> 00:22:10.320
Jacob Stoops: Except, yes, girls.

00:22:10.380 –> 00:22:10.710
Angela Bergmann: And

00:22:11.070 –> 00:22:13.440
Jacob Stoops: With if somebody had looked at my computer without

00:22:13.440 –> 00:22:13.980
Angela Bergmann: Content.

00:22:14.520 –> 00:22:16.170
Angela Bergmann: And I was visiting that website.

00:22:16.320 –> 00:22:17.100
Jacob Stoops: Every day.

00:22:18.180 –> 00:22:18.420
Jacob Stoops: Yeah.

00:22:18.960 –> 00:22:20.340
I think I would have had some questions.

00:22:25.050 –> 00:22:33.720
Angela Bergmann: People that like any if an SEO ever get arrested. Please don’t look at our search history really thinking about who we are as a person.

00:22:39.540 –> 00:22:41.880
Jacob Stoops: I wasn’t on purpose just looking at that site.

00:22:41.940 –> 00:22:42.600
Jacob Stoops: Every day.

00:22:43.440 –> 00:22:44.280
Angela Bergmann: For yeah

00:22:44.610 –> 00:22:44.970

00:22:47.280 –> 00:22:50.520
Jacob Stoops: So you did mention something when you were kind of talking about how you were

00:22:50.880 –> 00:23:01.080
Jacob Stoops: Coming up in the in the space Twitter. Twitter’s a big thing Twitter still a big thing for for the. So I would say Twitter is probably the best place to connect with other SEOs

00:23:01.830 –> 00:23:03.600
Jacob Stoops: More so than other

00:23:03.990 –> 00:23:16.770
Jacob Stoops: Newer mediums like Instagram or even Tick tock, or whatever. I think Twitter, even I think it’s like Facebook where it’s becoming maybe a little for the, the older generation when used to be the hip.

00:23:17.880 –> 00:23:18.960
Angela Bergmann: It’s, it’s definitely

00:23:20.010 –> 00:23:21.210
Angela Bergmann: Tick tock, but for right

00:23:21.210 –> 00:23:22.620
Jacob Stoops: Now it’s still the best place.

00:23:22.620 –> 00:23:22.950
Angela Bergmann: To

00:23:23.610 –> 00:23:25.710
Jacob Stoops: Communicate with other other SEOs so I do

00:23:25.710 –> 00:23:31.020
Jacob Stoops: find it interesting that you were able to connect and get a job through Twitter.

00:23:32.160 –> 00:23:32.490
Angela Bergmann: That’s pretty

00:23:33.960 –> 00:23:34.920
Angela Bergmann: Awesome. Yep.

00:23:35.670 –> 00:23:38.700
Jacob Stoops: You taught yourself WordPress. What was that like

00:23:41.070 –> 00:23:43.680
Angela Bergmann: No, it really just kind of weird because

00:23:44.850 –> 00:24:02.430
Angela Bergmann: It started with grey matter which was like a CGI based content management system and it just was so much easier than having to FTP into the site every day to like post something and then keeping that running log and and trying to keep all of these separate HTML pages organized

00:24:04.440 –> 00:24:09.870
Angela Bergmann: So it just really kind of morphed into, like, how can I do this easier and then just

00:24:11.340 –> 00:24:21.390
Angela Bergmann: It’s that I think that consumption for knowledge again come into play because it’s like, well, how do I figure this out. Why isn’t this working, what do I have to do to make this work. How do I make it look pretty.

00:24:23.220 –> 00:24:25.020
Angela Bergmann: And it just kind of went from there.

00:24:26.730 –> 00:24:33.000
Angela Bergmann: And because of that, like I got super involved in like the WordPress local WordPress community. I went to WordPress Meetup.

00:24:34.350 –> 00:24:36.300
Angela Bergmann: I hosted a word camp.

00:24:38.220 –> 00:24:51.390
Angela Bergmann: It really like between WordPress and like the digital marketing and social media is really just how I kind of built my career teaching myself these things and getting to be really good at a and

00:24:52.800 –> 00:24:55.350
Angela Bergmann: Being fairly good at sharing that

00:24:56.370 –> 00:25:02.910
Angela Bergmann: Experience and like knowledge with other people to try to explain things to them at a level that they could get it.

00:25:04.200 –> 00:25:11.910
Angela Bergmann: And I think that’s how I’ve gotten some of the jobs that I’ve gotten this because I’ve been able to answer questions and explain it in a way that people can understand

00:25:13.020 –> 00:25:14.250
Angela Bergmann: You had spoken.

00:25:14.580 –> 00:25:17.400
Jacob Stoops: At a lot of word camps all across the Midwest.

00:25:17.460 –> 00:25:18.390
Jacob Stoops: Honestly, like we

00:25:18.420 –> 00:25:20.490
Jacob Stoops: We do our diligence before so

00:25:20.520 –> 00:25:23.100
Angela Bergmann: And you’ve spoken several times at

00:25:23.100 –> 00:25:24.270
Jacob Stoops: Each of these are

00:25:24.630 –> 00:25:25.470
Angela Bergmann: Columbus.

00:25:25.500 –> 00:25:28.140
Jacob Stoops: In Canton end date Ann Arbor.

00:25:28.380 –> 00:25:29.520
Jacob Stoops: Michigan. Yeah.

00:25:30.240 –> 00:25:31.230
Angela Bergmann: Baby to

00:25:31.530 –> 00:25:32.520
Jacob Stoops: Buffalo potato.

00:25:32.580 –> 00:25:41.940
Angela Bergmann: I guess I were an OSU had we were always, you have to always take pictures on were on U of M campus like in enemy territory.

00:25:43.740 –> 00:25:44.820
Angela Bergmann: Very important to do

00:25:44.940 –> 00:25:46.440
Jacob Stoops: Um, what

00:25:48.360 –> 00:25:49.410
Angela Bergmann: I think that one.

00:25:49.410 –> 00:25:52.140
Jacob Stoops: Of the questions I would also ask outside of the

00:25:53.250 –> 00:25:59.100
Jacob Stoops: There are a lot of questions that come up when you start talking teaching yourself natural

00:25:59.430 –> 00:26:00.330

00:26:02.010 –> 00:26:10.020
Jacob Stoops: And now this is kind of getting into the public speaking realm but like I feel like these are all very important characteristics and we’d like to

00:26:11.010 –> 00:26:19.080
Jacob Stoops: Like to end the episodes, or at least we try sometimes we forget giving advice on like hey if you’re getting into the industry today like

00:26:19.590 –> 00:26:32.790
Jacob Stoops: What characteristics, should you look to follow or try to emulate in in other really great SEOs, and I think that like us. You have have shown and

00:26:33.540 –> 00:26:50.310
Jacob Stoops: I’m saying this because I came up in the same way I was a graphic designer who had no other choice but to teach myself web design, who then fell into SEO WordPress was a huge part of of my experience in in web design, but like

00:26:51.780 –> 00:26:55.530
Jacob Stoops: I think having that natural curiosity and I do see some people that

00:26:55.560 –> 00:26:56.790
Angela Bergmann: Come into the industry and

00:26:56.790 –> 00:26:58.140
Angela Bergmann: Like there’s

00:26:58.680 –> 00:27:05.610
Jacob Stoops: Not always the hunger there to want to dive into some of these complex problems and there’s not always the

00:27:06.960 –> 00:27:11.550
Jacob Stoops: The real desire to teach yourself one of the skills.

00:27:12.930 –> 00:27:13.290
Angela Bergmann: Yeah.

00:27:14.280 –> 00:27:15.570
Jacob Stoops: How important do you feel

00:27:15.570 –> 00:27:19.950
Jacob Stoops: Like that part of it is when you’re kind of coming up.

00:27:21.900 –> 00:27:29.160
Angela Bergmann: I think it’s critical. I think that desire to learn everything and teach yourself everything you possibly can, is

00:27:30.000 –> 00:27:48.960
Angela Bergmann: The foundation of being a really good SEO because things are going to change. Google can make a change, tomorrow that rocks all of our world and we have to learn it right now. So if you’re not able to like pivot quickly and learn things kind of on the fly, you’re already at a doctrine.

00:27:50.310 –> 00:27:50.610
Angela Bergmann: Yeah.

00:27:52.080 –> 00:27:57.150
Jeff Louella: No matter what I asked anyone who I’ve ever talked to you, like, what did you go to school for it.

00:27:57.810 –> 00:27:59.100
Jeff Louella: It’s never SEO right

00:27:59.100 –> 00:27:59.730
Angela Bergmann: So it’s

00:28:00.930 –> 00:28:03.270
Jeff Louella: So I’ve worked with people who were

00:28:04.320 –> 00:28:07.950
Jeff Louella: Wanted to be a gym teacher, all the way to people like

00:28:08.370 –> 00:28:10.200
Jeff Louella: Journalism is a big one.

00:28:10.650 –> 00:28:11.160
Jeff Louella: And then

00:28:11.670 –> 00:28:12.450
Angela Bergmann: The big one.

00:28:12.570 –> 00:28:13.860
Jeff Louella: Yeah, and journalism is

00:28:14.490 –> 00:28:17.970
Jeff Louella: Is great. I mean, the technical side is where they need to have the curiosity, but

00:28:18.600 –> 00:28:21.480
Jeff Louella: I’m probably the opposite where it’s like on the content side, I probably need

00:28:21.540 –> 00:28:25.140
Jeff Louella: A little more curiosity on wordplay and things like that because

00:28:26.370 –> 00:28:29.100
Jeff Louella: I’m coming from a technical background but yeah it’s it’s

00:28:29.550 –> 00:28:31.170
Jeff Louella: Having the curiosity in general.

00:28:31.170 –> 00:28:37.050
Jeff Louella: And learning how to, you know, I always tell someone who’s new like build a WordPress site.

00:28:37.410 –> 00:28:38.730
Angela Bergmann: It’s just one because it’s, yeah.

00:28:38.790 –> 00:28:40.230
Angela Bergmann: There’s so much information out.

00:28:40.230 –> 00:28:45.210
Jeff Louella: There that you can’t, like, if I say build a craft CMS site right now or

00:28:45.240 –> 00:28:47.640
Jeff Louella: Go do with expression engine or go do

00:28:47.850 –> 00:28:49.140
Angela Bergmann: So high

00:28:49.260 –> 00:28:52.650
Jeff Louella: Yeah, we will type or, you know, I

00:28:53.280 –> 00:28:56.520
Jeff Louella: It’s one of those where it’s like there might not be as much out there WordPress, there’s this

00:28:56.610 –> 00:28:58.920
Angela Bergmann: Gigantic community. Yeah, that’s

00:28:59.130 –> 00:28:59.550
Angela Bergmann: And don’t

00:28:59.580 –> 00:29:04.320
Jeff Louella: Just go to WordPress com and pay you know or get a free site there like go

00:29:04.530 –> 00:29:08.700
Angela Bergmann: Now, Donald word download it and

00:29:13.080 –> 00:29:13.710
Angela Bergmann: All which is

00:29:13.800 –> 00:29:16.470
Jeff Louella: Which is fine for me now because I installed it but

00:29:17.010 –> 00:29:23.760
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, like I use the One Button installed, but that’s because I installed thousands of patients on it.

00:29:24.810 –> 00:29:25.530
Angela Bergmann: So easy.

00:29:26.250 –> 00:29:28.410
Angela Bergmann: But at the same time, it’s like knowing like

00:29:28.470 –> 00:29:34.410
Jeff Louella: Okay, I got my config file up to what does the config file, it’s like okay, now it’s just like

00:29:34.440 –> 00:29:34.860
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, I

00:29:35.100 –> 00:29:36.240
Jeff Louella: Get to my sequel database.

00:29:36.270 –> 00:29:37.680
Jeff Louella: What is that my sequel database.

00:29:37.680 –> 00:29:38.490
Jeff Louella: You know, and it’s just

00:29:39.750 –> 00:29:46.020
Angela Bergmann: That’s the kind of stuff, too, that when you when you’re learning it like so. I work for very large corporation.

00:29:47.370 –> 00:29:57.090
Angela Bergmann: I wanted access administrative level access on my laptop and they’re like why. And I was like, cuz I want to update my host file. And they were like, oh,

00:29:57.660 –> 00:30:09.180
Angela Bergmann: You know what, I’m like, yeah, I know what that is. I need to update it and like just having that knowledge has helped me be able to get access to the things that I need, because I know what it

00:30:10.350 –> 00:30:12.210
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, it’s great. Yeah.

00:30:12.840 –> 00:30:14.490
Jeff Louella: So I have a little confession that I’ve

00:30:14.700 –> 00:30:15.750
Jeff Louella: Signed up for

00:30:15.900 –> 00:30:18.300
Angela Bergmann: Probably the last five years to go to WordPress.

00:30:18.630 –> 00:30:19.350
Jeff Louella: Or work camp.

00:30:19.890 –> 00:30:21.090
Jeff Louella: Paid and I never went

00:30:24.990 –> 00:30:27.330
Jeff Louella: I totally support it. I love the idea of it.

00:30:27.690 –> 00:30:32.040
Jeff Louella: I moved from Philadelphia to Atlanta. About three years ago, but at least

00:30:32.250 –> 00:30:34.230
Jeff Louella: Three years in Philadelphia. I paid and it’s

00:30:34.230 –> 00:30:35.790
Jeff Louella: Always sits on a weekend.

00:30:36.240 –> 00:30:37.200
Angela Bergmann: Which yeah

00:30:37.260 –> 00:30:38.520
Jeff Louella: Usually is good because

00:30:39.240 –> 00:30:41.070
Jeff Louella: I can go on a weekend. Like, it seems great

00:30:41.520 –> 00:30:49.680
Jeff Louella: But that’s usually family time and that’s where it goes. Like if you give me the Tuesday I feel like I’m working late today or it’s a substitute work for the conference.

00:30:50.070 –> 00:30:51.960
Angela Bergmann: But I think I paid for it every year and I

00:30:51.960 –> 00:31:02.700
Jeff Louella: Send in our Atlanta office now that I’m company on that every year. I said word camps coming sign up here and I always pay by my ticket because I support it. And then I usually never get

00:31:02.970 –> 00:31:04.290
Jeff Louella: Go, so I am

00:31:04.410 –> 00:31:05.610
Jeff Louella: Oh, you have

00:31:05.610 –> 00:31:06.090
Angela Bergmann: To go

00:31:06.120 –> 00:31:06.630
Angela Bergmann: I need

00:31:06.690 –> 00:31:07.200
Jeff Louella: I will go

00:31:09.120 –> 00:31:18.780
Angela Bergmann: I tell people all the time. I’m like, honestly, especially from the tech like SEO side like we’re cancer amazing i I’ve met some of the best people I know through that.

00:31:19.980 –> 00:31:30.660
Angela Bergmann: Actually when I was interviewing for this job. I was interviewing with john parka who’s the director of SEO still he’s on actually on our, on our enterprise side now.

00:31:31.140 –> 00:31:33.810
Angela Bergmann: But he helped start one of the word camps in Florida.

00:31:34.290 –> 00:31:45.120
Angela Bergmann: And he saw on my resume that I was on the committee for word camp North Canton, and then I was the chair for word camp Kent and word camp Northeast Ohio and then I spoke at all these word camp.

00:31:45.450 –> 00:31:50.160
Angela Bergmann: So that was like part of my interview process was talking about what I do work camp.

00:31:51.120 –> 00:31:59.250
Angela Bergmann: But like, I’ve met some of my best friends at this point through the word WordPress community. And that’s why, like I go to their camps and I talked and

00:31:59.700 –> 00:32:10.500
Angela Bergmann: I just made some wonderful connections. That’s great. I just looked it out, April 18 and 19th word camp Atlanta. I will be there. Mm hmm. And I know one of their organizers.

00:32:14.910 –> 00:32:25.110
Angela Bergmann: Yes, they’re always looking for speakers, they always especially on. I mean, just saying. Like I always talk nowadays about SEO or accessibility at them and

00:32:26.490 –> 00:32:32.340
Angela Bergmann: They’re highly attended people have wonderful question. They’re super engaged. I love it. That’s awesome.

00:32:33.780 –> 00:32:36.690
Jacob Stoops: Just how dare you prioritize your family.

00:32:37.260 –> 00:32:38.400
Angela Bergmann: Over WordPress and

00:32:40.110 –> 00:32:42.060
Jeff Louella: Ryan times I’ve just hung over from Friday.

00:32:42.060 –> 00:32:42.600
Jeff Louella: Night now.

00:32:48.300 –> 00:32:50.280
Jacob Stoops: Angela, what do you do it word camp.

00:32:52.200 –> 00:32:54.330
Angela Bergmann: So what do I do a word chill. Yeah.

00:32:55.140 –> 00:32:57.660
Jacob Stoops: You said that you said that just two seconds ago.

00:32:57.750 –> 00:33:00.030
Jacob Stoops: And I was like I was just gonna say, Well, what do you do

00:33:00.780 –> 00:33:12.960
Angela Bergmann: So now I said so now i don’t i just attend. Now, or I speak of them. Previously I was actually on the committee that actually helped around them, because they are nonprofit.

00:33:13.560 –> 00:33:18.480
Angela Bergmann: That’s how the tickets are so cheap everybody donate their time to help run the camp.

00:33:19.380 –> 00:33:34.350
Angela Bergmann: And you know, I started out just doing social media for it. So I was the one posting on social media, creating the website. And then I was the one. And I think the whole thing and getting sponsors and running it day of

00:33:36.540 –> 00:33:43.980
Angela Bergmann: Compared to some conferences word camps are super laid back jeans and a t shirt hang out with your friends.

00:33:44.550 –> 00:33:57.780
Angela Bergmann: If you’re in one of the sessions and it’s not really vibe in with you. You’re welcome to like get up and leave like it. It’s just a really like friendly open atmosphere. So it’s not it’s not too high pressure

00:33:59.100 –> 00:34:09.180
Angela Bergmann: But now. Uh, yeah, I just speak at the Now typically about SEO typically beginners level SEO so small businesses people that are just getting into marketing.

00:34:10.080 –> 00:34:23.820
Angela Bergmann: New College graduate, that kind of stuff. Just like you don’t don’t listen to the snake oil salesman that are going to be like, we’ll get you on number one. Don’t buy a link. Here’s the basic things you can do.

00:34:25.350 –> 00:34:30.300
Angela Bergmann: In the run up to getting an agency to help you. You just install used

00:34:32.370 –> 00:34:42.510
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, like that’s one of the things that I actually go over as I’m like yeah install Yost ignore the green light. Um, you know, just write good content answer people’s questions.

00:34:44.460 –> 00:34:48.180
Angela Bergmann: I think that’s really what you need to do the plugins, not just going to

00:34:48.180 –> 00:34:49.650
Jacob Stoops: Magically, do the SEO.

00:34:49.980 –> 00:34:51.810
Angela Bergmann: Despite what some people think, yeah.

00:34:52.260 –> 00:34:54.150
Jacob Stoops: That’s exactly, exactly.

00:34:54.240 –> 00:34:57.600
Angela Bergmann: autopilot which is a and worms.

00:34:59.850 –> 00:35:01.350
Angela Bergmann: The public speaking angle.

00:35:02.310 –> 00:35:06.930
Jacob Stoops: There are a lot of folks in our industry are either a doing it.

00:35:07.080 –> 00:35:07.800
Jacob Stoops: Or be

00:35:08.130 –> 00:35:20.250
Jacob Stoops: Thinking about doing it. What advice for those people who are thinking about doing it because you have done it so much. Would you give and kind of what types of things did you go through

00:35:22.230 –> 00:35:25.110
Jacob Stoops: before you got into it, or as you were early on in it.

00:35:27.360 –> 00:35:41.670
Angela Bergmann: So the number one thing I learned I actually learned from my husband. Um, he got finally got it through my head that just because something seems really easy for me doesn’t mean everybody else knows how to do it.

00:35:43.470 –> 00:35:54.360
Angela Bergmann: Because I’ve been doing this for so long. I don’t realize the level of things that I know and what seems really like basic common knowledge to me isn’t so common.

00:35:56.280 –> 00:36:08.250
Angela Bergmann: So even if it seems like something simple, there’s somebody out there that needs to know about it and wants to learn about it. And if it’s something you feel really confident about and you know a lot about pitch to talk about it.

00:36:10.200 –> 00:36:11.490
Angela Bergmann: Especially if you’re a woman.

00:36:14.340 –> 00:36:17.490
Jeff Louella: As an issue where it’s I feel that there’s so many

00:36:17.640 –> 00:36:18.750
Angela Bergmann: SEO conferences.

00:36:19.170 –> 00:36:21.060
Jeff Louella: Is somebody SEO blogs from the

00:36:21.060 –> 00:36:31.740
Jeff Louella: Sky News things that it’s I do have that issue where it’s like, oh, I talked about this, but like there’s a million people talking about it right now. And it’s like, what is is looking at what that

00:36:31.740 –> 00:36:33.000
Jeff Louella: Next Big Thing is out there.

00:36:33.000 –> 00:36:34.260
Jeff Louella: But in a way,

00:36:34.560 –> 00:36:36.690
Jeff Louella: The basics are still not like

00:36:36.990 –> 00:36:39.600
Jeff Louella: I’ve learned this my clients like some my basic like

00:36:40.080 –> 00:36:42.540
Jeff Louella: The basics are not being followed and

00:36:43.380 –> 00:36:44.940
Jeff Louella: You know, and internal education with

00:36:45.240 –> 00:36:46.770
Jeff Louella: My, my clients is where I

00:36:47.130 –> 00:36:48.270
Angela Bergmann: Love the focus on that.

00:36:49.140 –> 00:36:57.270
Jeff Louella: Though I sometimes feel like I’ve been doing this for a long time. I should be like teaching them all about like how to use machine learning to do better SEO.

00:36:57.990 –> 00:37:00.270
Jeff Louella: Not teaching you that like listen that right over.

00:37:00.270 –> 00:37:07.950
Jeff Louella: 65 characters on the title or or let’s add a title to our page because you know we forgot to do that, but it’s it’s

00:37:08.010 –> 00:37:20.850
Angela Bergmann: And I think that’s the people forget like everybody still needs a reminder on the basics and like how the how the why the basics are still relevant. They feel like it’s a big thing. Yeah, anyway.

00:37:22.140 –> 00:37:27.510
Jeff Louella: This is a little bit basics and a little bit above right there is like that’s 90% of what we need to know and everything else is

00:37:27.510 –> 00:37:28.740
Angela Bergmann: sugar on top of it. So,

00:37:29.340 –> 00:37:30.060
Jacob Stoops: Yeah, it’s

00:37:30.780 –> 00:37:33.810
Jacob Stoops: It’s a pretty rare situation. I’ve been an agency.

00:37:33.810 –> 00:37:50.280
Jacob Stoops: World for 90% of my career and there I can count probably on one hand, the amount of clients where their SEO strategy was so well developed that we only ever focused on really advanced stuff.

00:37:51.030 –> 00:37:52.890
Angela Bergmann: For the most part, when people

00:37:53.040 –> 00:37:58.980
Jacob Stoops: Have come to us. They’ve got like very basic, very fundamental problems very

00:37:59.340 –> 00:38:01.080
Jacob Stoops: Fundamental technical problems.

00:38:01.110 –> 00:38:04.650
Jacob Stoops: Or because they haven’t really ever thought of SEO or

00:38:04.650 –> 00:38:06.180
Jacob Stoops: Done keyword research, they don’t

00:38:06.180 –> 00:38:22.230
Jacob Stoops: Understand what their consumers are searching for where they should be showing up. So they had a lot of content gaps and we spend a lot of time in because SEO takes a long time because it takes a long time for implementation to occur. A lot of in most cases.

00:38:23.310 –> 00:38:25.890
Jacob Stoops: It can take years to get some of the

00:38:26.490 –> 00:38:27.210
Angela Bergmann: Stuff right

00:38:27.270 –> 00:38:35.310
Jacob Stoops: In finally in place, but the the weird juxtaposition in agency world is you don’t have years. So sometimes you’re

00:38:35.400 –> 00:38:37.800
Jacob Stoops: You’re really stuck between a rock and

00:38:38.280 –> 00:38:43.260
Jacob Stoops: A hard place. But yeah, I mean, most people come to us with basic, basic

00:38:44.520 –> 00:38:46.650
Jacob Stoops: basic needs, and we we

00:38:47.670 –> 00:38:57.090
Jacob Stoops: Are having to serve those needs, but then the flip side is on the public speaking in the conference side like I think sometimes I fall into the

00:38:58.290 –> 00:39:00.960
Jacob Stoops: The way of thinking like Jeff where it’s like

00:39:02.400 –> 00:39:17.850
Jacob Stoops: Everybody like nobody everybody I assume everybody who would be attending an SEO or WordPress conference would already know the basics. So like I i don’t pitch more because I’m like, well, what can I tell these people that they don’t already know.

00:39:18.150 –> 00:39:19.410
Jacob Stoops: And sometimes that’s the wrong way to

00:39:19.410 –> 00:39:20.460
Angela Bergmann: Think about it for sure.

00:39:20.910 –> 00:39:24.210
Jacob Stoops: I totally realized that’s the probably the the wrong.

00:39:24.210 –> 00:39:25.530
Angela Bergmann: Approach to take because

00:39:25.560 –> 00:39:33.930
Jacob Stoops: For every person in there that does know some of the basic stuff. There’s probably a new person in there that’s never heard any of it before so

00:39:34.470 –> 00:39:44.520
Angela Bergmann: Yeah. And you’ll notice that like even the SEO conferences, they’ll have a talk here and there. That’s like basically rehashing the basics and how and why it’s still relevant to today.

00:39:45.300 –> 00:39:46.800
Jacob Stoops: Did you ever have any like

00:39:46.800 –> 00:39:51.120
Jacob Stoops: Fears of getting up on stage and talking in front of a lot of people

00:39:55.350 –> 00:40:16.380
Angela Bergmann: Like I get. I get that nervousness of, like, what if I can’t answer. Somebody question. Um, but I am super outgoing and kinda like in your face. One of those types of people. So like getting up in front of a group was never a fear for me. You’re, you’re one of the lucky ones like

00:40:18.360 –> 00:40:18.930
Jacob Stoops: I have

00:40:19.350 –> 00:40:20.580
Jacob Stoops: A bit of a public

00:40:20.580 –> 00:40:39.330
Jacob Stoops: Speaking fear which I usually quickly get over but like I have a weird thing that happens to me when I, when I talk in public in most predominantly so I’ve, I don’t want to call myself a singer, but I’ve saying in public. Several times for like benefits and whatnot and

00:40:40.200 –> 00:40:41.670
Jacob Stoops: I have this thing, right.

00:40:41.670 –> 00:40:45.510
Jacob Stoops: Before I’m about to go on stage and

00:40:46.260 –> 00:40:47.250
Angela Bergmann: A couple of times.

00:40:47.280 –> 00:40:49.800
Jacob Stoops: Literally seconds before the words are supposed to come out of my

00:40:49.800 –> 00:40:50.970
Angela Bergmann: Mouth where

00:40:51.030 –> 00:40:52.290
Angela Bergmann: everything just goes blank.

00:40:52.380 –> 00:40:55.500
Jacob Stoops: And I forget all the words and literally

00:40:55.800 –> 00:40:57.180
Angela Bergmann: The words to me.

00:40:57.240 –> 00:40:59.070
Jacob Stoops: Until the second my mouth opens

00:40:59.250 –> 00:41:05.910
Jacob Stoops: And like you have no idea the amount of anxiety and stress and fear that that causes could

00:41:06.240 –> 00:41:08.190
Jacob Stoops: Could you imagine like being

00:41:08.220 –> 00:41:09.090
Angela Bergmann: Like the

00:41:09.150 –> 00:41:10.890
Jacob Stoops: Music is not stopping

00:41:12.180 –> 00:41:12.630
Jacob Stoops: You’re

00:41:12.660 –> 00:41:19.410
Jacob Stoops: Missing your cue because you forgot the what that’s like. That’s a real thing and like there have been times I feel like where I’ve been.

00:41:19.830 –> 00:41:21.000
Angela Bergmann: Getting in front of people.

00:41:21.330 –> 00:41:24.810
Jacob Stoops: That happens to me and and the light bulb just goes out.

00:41:25.170 –> 00:41:25.680

00:41:26.790 –> 00:41:30.690
Jacob Stoops: There’s a, there’s a certain amount of silence, where, like, it’s okay. But then like

00:41:30.900 –> 00:41:31.980
Angela Bergmann: As you’re trying to get

00:41:32.880 –> 00:41:34.920
Jacob Stoops: Your head and nobody knows that this is happening.

00:41:34.920 –> 00:41:36.300
Jacob Stoops: There’s a certain amount of silence.

00:41:36.300 –> 00:41:37.500
Angela Bergmann: That just awkward.

00:41:38.160 –> 00:41:50.190
Jacob Stoops: And like the lock on the more awkward. It gets and you’re inside like instead of thinking, what was I supposed to be singing. What was I supposed to be saying you’re thinking now, all these people are seeing me freak out.

00:41:50.820 –> 00:41:51.750
Say something.

00:41:54.690 –> 00:41:56.100
Angela Bergmann: Doing what it should be doing so.

00:41:56.100 –> 00:42:00.690
Jacob Stoops: Like, that’s my personal public public speaking fear.

00:42:01.110 –> 00:42:01.620
Angela Bergmann: Oh,

00:42:01.860 –> 00:42:02.790
Jacob Stoops: That’s a very real.

00:42:02.880 –> 00:42:04.650
Jacob Stoops: Thing I know other people have that

00:42:06.780 –> 00:42:19.290
Angela Bergmann: Here’s, here’s how I have that not happen and this always boggles people’s mind so you can go to like and you can see like some of the recorded where Tim says Boca um

00:42:20.400 –> 00:42:36.480
Angela Bergmann: I knew a lot of people like put together presentations and they have like cards and they like no exact. I have no idea what I’m going to say when I get up there. Wow. I just have a deck. That’s like cuse me to talk about things and I just go

00:42:38.190 –> 00:42:38.820
Angela Bergmann: Oh, man.

00:42:39.030 –> 00:42:40.350
Jacob Stoops: You’re like a Jasmine.

00:42:43.590 –> 00:42:44.250
Every time

00:42:45.690 –> 00:42:51.390
Angela Bergmann: Because like I like to read the especially when I’m at work camps, because there. I know that a lot of these people are very new.

00:42:51.870 –> 00:43:05.070
Angela Bergmann: I can kind of read the room and see what kind of questions. I’m getting asked throughout the presentation and it might shift, what I’m going to say to it’s always slightly different but I always kind of end up with the same takeaways.

00:43:06.000 –> 00:43:10.320
Angela Bergmann: But yeah, I just get up there and talk. Remember, smooth again gigantic

00:43:10.470 –> 00:43:11.880
Jeff Louella: You know 500 person.

00:43:12.300 –> 00:43:12.720
Angela Bergmann: But

00:43:13.500 –> 00:43:18.630
Jeff Louella: I’ve done tons of smaller meetups like 3040 people in there.

00:43:18.630 –> 00:43:19.170

00:43:20.220 –> 00:43:25.830
Jeff Louella: Get I definitely like to feel out the room. I know kind of where I’m going with everything. But one question.

00:43:26.070 –> 00:43:27.000
Angela Bergmann: If I had a script.

00:43:27.060 –> 00:43:29.250
Jeff Louella: That I was going off of the one question through that script.

00:43:29.250 –> 00:43:32.820
Jeff Louella: Off, then I’d be like trying to rewind like Where was I add

00:43:34.560 –> 00:43:35.610
Angela Bergmann: I would think.

00:43:35.850 –> 00:43:37.140
Jeff Louella: I have been told, you know,

00:43:37.170 –> 00:43:40.770
Jeff Louella: We used to have like presentation training at different companies and

00:43:41.400 –> 00:43:43.200
Jeff Louella: Like they’re like stand in front of a mirror and

00:43:43.200 –> 00:43:44.730
Jeff Louella: Practice what you’re going to say.

00:43:45.210 –> 00:43:47.610
Jeff Louella: And I get it, if I’m doing a

00:43:47.610 –> 00:43:49.110
Angela Bergmann: keynote speech media or

00:43:49.110 –> 00:43:50.100
Jeff Louella: If I’m doing like

00:43:50.700 –> 00:43:52.680
Jeff Louella: Something. Yeah, I’d like to be very

00:43:54.090 –> 00:43:59.010
Jeff Louella: You know, given take with the audience, right. So it’s, again, I have my slides. We know we got an hour.

00:44:00.510 –> 00:44:03.600
Jeff Louella: There’s been many times where I’m on slide 16 we have 10 minutes left.

00:44:03.630 –> 00:44:04.560
Angela Bergmann: Right, and so it’s like

00:44:04.860 –> 00:44:06.870
Jeff Louella: Well, these things work. But if the audience gets what they want.

00:44:06.870 –> 00:44:17.850
Jeff Louella: Out of it like I I’m not there to make like my final slides, not like a mic drop. It’s like at that time. It’s like my my job would be like if you want more information you can talk. Let’s talk right here.

00:44:18.180 –> 00:44:19.440
Angela Bergmann: Compared to be after

00:44:23.550 –> 00:44:41.400
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, I mean, I’ve been in I’ve been in the situations because I do a lot of advocacy for nonprofit outside of just work where like those presentations have to be more structured, but even those I leave that wiggle room because I think that’s how it helps me get over that fear.

00:44:43.170 –> 00:44:44.580
Jacob Stoops: If you guys ever seen the movie old

00:44:44.580 –> 00:44:45.030

00:44:46.380 –> 00:44:46.950
Jacob Stoops: Yeah.

00:44:47.130 –> 00:44:51.090
Angela Bergmann: No, you have Jeff and I have a question for you, Angela, but

00:44:52.470 –> 00:44:53.760
Angela Bergmann: I guess I should have phrased it the other

00:44:54.120 –> 00:44:54.990
Angela Bergmann: Way. Anyway, so

00:44:55.620 –> 00:44:56.310
Jacob Stoops: For those of you

00:44:56.790 –> 00:45:11.370
Jacob Stoops: Folks, they haven’t seen the movie. First off, it’s funny movie so you should go see it it’s it’s old older it’s from my generation, I guess. But I guess, which makes it a little old um there’s a scene in the movie.

00:45:11.400 –> 00:45:13.500
Jacob Stoops: Where Will Ferrell’s character.

00:45:13.950 –> 00:45:23.010
Jacob Stoops: Goes up for like a debate and they’re essentially debating as part of this competition to keep the charter for their fraternity.

00:45:23.970 –> 00:45:36.600
Jacob Stoops: Loose loose fraternity going so that they can keep their debauchery of a fraternity open and so they’re having this debate and it’s it’s this this massive thing with a moderator.

00:45:37.350 –> 00:45:46.530
Jacob Stoops: And the school president who does not want this fraternity to exist, kind of tries to rig it and he brings in famed political commentator James Carville

00:45:47.490 –> 00:45:54.570
Jacob Stoops: And then they asked this really, really hard question and James Carville is about to answer and Will Ferrell goes Excuse me.

00:45:54.990 –> 00:46:06.240
Jacob Stoops: I think I could take that one. James Carville is like have added hos and Will Ferrell its character proceeds to perfectly and succinctly answer the question.

00:46:06.840 –> 00:46:17.190
Jacob Stoops: And then immediately after everybody’s patting him on the back, and he just kind of like wakes up and goes anybody’s like what the, what the heck just happened I blacked out

00:46:18.660 –> 00:46:22.200
Jacob Stoops: And for me, when I’m public speaking. Sometimes

00:46:22.200 –> 00:46:22.950
Angela Bergmann: And or

00:46:23.010 –> 00:46:24.450
Angela Bergmann: Sometimes when I’m like

00:46:24.750 –> 00:46:32.460
Jacob Stoops: When I have material that I know and I’m very, very comfortable with. I feel like there have been times for me where that kind of happens

00:46:33.150 –> 00:46:33.510
Jacob Stoops: Where I’m

00:46:34.080 –> 00:46:35.280
Jacob Stoops: going with the flow.

00:46:35.340 –> 00:46:44.820
Jacob Stoops: And it’s almost like you can do it on autopilot. And I, it makes me sometimes, when that has happened to me think of that scene in that movie.

00:46:45.960 –> 00:46:59.580
Jacob Stoops: And in that’s in. That’s the version of me that is over my over my stress about public speaking and very comfortable with doing it and very much. Josh, I think with the with the audience. And I would say like

00:47:00.960 –> 00:47:15.150
Jacob Stoops: I’ve, I feel like I i personally come a long way, but for me it’s even still awkward because there is there is that element of it. So there are people that are just so not comfortable with it and I’m definitely one of those

00:47:15.570 –> 00:47:17.220
Jacob Stoops: People even still, even

00:47:17.250 –> 00:47:18.930
Angela Bergmann: My deep into my career.

00:47:20.490 –> 00:47:23.400
Jacob Stoops: Anyways, Jeff. What’s in the news.

00:47:25.020 –> 00:47:31.380
Jeff Louella: So the biggest news this week was Wall Street Journal released an article out that

00:47:32.580 –> 00:47:37.020
Jeff Louella: was titled How Google interferes with its search algorithms and changes your results.

00:47:37.770 –> 00:47:40.170
Angela Bergmann: And as a typical

00:47:40.170 –> 00:47:42.660
Jeff Louella: Fashion SEOs went nuts.

00:47:44.310 –> 00:47:55.590
Jeff Louella: And I would say semi right so um I guess like Wall Street Journal, you know, not necessarily necessarily known as like degree to source for SEO material.

00:47:56.850 –> 00:47:57.510
Jeff Louella: But they sent a

00:47:57.840 –> 00:48:03.630
Jeff Louella: Material. Yeah, that’s where I go first. You know, for my SEO stuff, but I always get their paywall block.

00:48:03.930 –> 00:48:06.360
Jeff Louella: So I will admit that I read.

00:48:07.380 –> 00:48:08.190
Jeff Louella: one paragraph.

00:48:08.280 –> 00:48:08.910
Jeff Louella: And then

00:48:09.390 –> 00:48:10.650
Jeff Louella: Boots because I did not pay for the

00:48:10.650 –> 00:48:11.280
Angela Bergmann: Wall Street Journal

00:48:11.730 –> 00:48:13.440
Jeff Louella: And I really think if

00:48:13.680 –> 00:48:15.600
Angela Bergmann: SEOs didn’t go crazy that article.

00:48:15.630 –> 00:48:17.100
Angela Bergmann: Know what even read it but

00:48:18.480 –> 00:48:20.430
Jeff Louella: Except, like, you know, businessman.

00:48:22.050 –> 00:48:27.450
Jeff Louella: But in general, you know, it’s like one of the big things that they interviewed over 100 different people for this. They said,

00:48:27.840 –> 00:48:37.050
Jeff Louella: And it’s interesting because I guess all who you interview and the way I look at it and how they probably got their information right it’s like I interviewed 100 SEOs okay I can

00:48:37.800 –> 00:48:45.660
Jeff Louella: I can interview a whole bunch of really great SEOs and then there’s all these link builders and spammers I can interview also. So, of course, and they conspiracy

00:48:45.660 –> 00:48:47.580
Angela Bergmann: Theories right so if

00:48:47.760 –> 00:48:49.440
Jeff Louella: I’m reading some of these, and I’m going

00:48:49.650 –> 00:48:51.060
Jeff Louella: Okay, that’s a conspiracy theory.

00:48:51.060 –> 00:48:52.590
Angela Bergmann: But the Wall Street Journal didn’t really do their

00:48:52.590 –> 00:48:53.490

00:48:55.590 –> 00:48:57.240
Angela Bergmann: Actually access to that if they did.

00:48:57.300 –> 00:48:59.250
Jeff Louella: Like I know Glenn gave was misquoted on

00:48:59.250 –> 00:48:59.760
Jeff Louella: His

00:49:00.690 –> 00:49:02.640
Jeff Louella: But some of the things they were kind of saying is

00:49:03.330 –> 00:49:07.740
Jeff Louella: You know, Google makes algorithm changes the benefit and favorite big business.

00:49:08.730 –> 00:49:15.750
Jeff Louella: So that’s something people have been saying for a long time and but if you kind of understand algorithms, you look at it and saying like

00:49:16.590 –> 00:49:27.360
Jeff Louella: Do I want to order something from Amazon com or do I want to order something from the smallest like one guy who had one website, who has one product and gets

00:49:27.780 –> 00:49:28.920
Angela Bergmann: Totally trustworthy.

00:49:29.010 –> 00:49:29.430
Angela Bergmann: It’s totally

00:49:29.490 –> 00:49:31.740
Jeff Louella: Right, so there is a trust factor to this.

00:49:32.370 –> 00:49:34.470
Angela Bergmann: To me it wasn’t news, but I guess there’s some people

00:49:35.610 –> 00:49:39.930
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, there’s a trust factor and SEO. Yeah.

00:49:40.500 –> 00:49:44.460
Angela Bergmann: It’s part of the Shakespeare return eat what the

00:49:45.420 –> 00:49:47.940
Jeff Louella: Yeah. And if you read any of the guidelines, it seems

00:49:47.940 –> 00:49:50.460
Jeff Louella: Like, that’s part of it, right, then go for people who

00:49:50.550 –> 00:49:55.080
Angela Bergmann: Have like expertise and authority and trust so

00:49:56.520 –> 00:49:58.050
Jeff Louella: Another I guess was you

00:49:58.770 –> 00:50:01.590
Jacob Stoops: Know, we’re not moving past this yet, Jeff.

00:50:07.380 –> 00:50:08.010
Jacob Stoops: Seinfeld.

00:50:10.230 –> 00:50:15.750
Jacob Stoops: So Wall Street Journal. So they were they wrote an article about SEO. Okay.

00:50:16.980 –> 00:50:20.550
Jacob Stoops: They’re not an authority on SEO. So like on one side.

00:50:21.570 –> 00:50:31.200
Jacob Stoops: I’m thinking as a person who would have been interviewed well damn it would have been really cool to be approached by the Wall Street Journal to like

00:50:31.590 –> 00:50:32.040
Angela Bergmann: Have

00:50:33.000 –> 00:50:47.550
Jacob Stoops: What my thoughts but like the the cynic in me in in the person in me, who pays attention to things outside of the scope of SEO would think, well,

00:50:48.150 –> 00:50:59.550
Jacob Stoops: The Wall Street Journal is a media outlet and the reporter is probably being given a directive by their superiors and their leadership within the company.

00:51:00.030 –> 00:51:13.950
Jacob Stoops: That whatever they report it has to take a certain slant. So when things came out as being misquoted and being just probably factually wrong like

00:51:15.150 –> 00:51:20.820
Jacob Stoops: Given the environment today and I don’t want to, like, I want to bring in politics, but

00:51:20.850 –> 00:51:23.100
Angela Bergmann: Given the political environment that we

00:51:23.130 –> 00:51:24.420
Jacob Stoops: All live in today.

00:51:24.720 –> 00:51:29.160
Jacob Stoops: Where media outlets are slanted in one way or another with

00:51:29.640 –> 00:51:30.510
Angela Bergmann: Agendas

00:51:30.960 –> 00:51:40.020
Jacob Stoops: Should it have surprised. Anybody who was interviewed that they were misquoted and that this reporter found a way to push their agenda.

00:51:41.310 –> 00:51:51.840
Jacob Stoops: Pretty much, despite the evidence given by the people who were being quoted like. Does that surprise you guys that they took those quotes and slanted them the way that they wanted

00:51:53.850 –> 00:52:03.900
Angela Bergmann: I don’t know. So I’ve been. I’ve been interviewed for a couple of different media publications. I’ve been in USA Today. And I’ve been in Slate both

00:52:04.980 –> 00:52:15.450
Angela Bergmann: Her infertility related things and they both stories they they were really accurate for how they quoted me so I would probably be surprised, personally.

00:52:16.680 –> 00:52:25.560
Angela Bergmann: I think it would have more to do with finding out. So when I’m typically approached for something like that I typically want to know, like what’s the slant like what’s the endgame here.

00:52:26.040 –> 00:52:35.550
Angela Bergmann: Like what are, what is this what is the purpose because there is a purpose for the article. It’s being ready to find out what that is and see if it’s going to be in line with what you’re going to say.

00:52:37.440 –> 00:52:41.280
Jeff Louella: Yeah, we don’t want to have all this effort and time they say

00:52:42.330 –> 00:52:46.680
Jeff Louella: Oh, Google’s just, you know, not doing bad things, right, like the whole idea is you want to

00:52:46.980 –> 00:52:48.990
Jeff Louella: kind of try to expose them on it and

00:52:49.950 –> 00:53:01.530
Jeff Louella: It is I, I would be shocked a little bit right because out of all the news out there like if I was on Gawker, or Buzzfeed. Like, I expect them to maybe get things wrong. I don’t know why. Maybe, yeah.

00:53:01.590 –> 00:53:02.460
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, it’s less

00:53:02.490 –> 00:53:03.690
Jeff Louella: But the Wall Street Journal

00:53:04.290 –> 00:53:19.920
Jeff Louella: Like there is this integrity with like big things right and there was a time where the, I think the New York Times explodes JC Penney for doing black hat SEO and I was kind of actually shocked that it’s New York Times exposing them doing it. I can’t like

00:53:20.040 –> 00:53:21.180
Jeff Louella: Oh, Wall Street Journal

00:53:22.110 –> 00:53:32.400
Jeff Louella: Same to me. Same level, not knowing. Like I don’t read it. I’m actually but in my head, same level of professionalism, we get things right and misquoting like if it was a little misquote great but

00:53:32.940 –> 00:53:41.250
Jeff Louella: Are not great but you know an understandable, but I mean, as I think when Gabe said like he was not even a he was off the record. He was not even

00:53:41.760 –> 00:53:50.760
Jeff Louella: Mentioned in the article, and then they mentioned them with a, you know, with our misquote or me up because he said he’d never said that. So to me that’s not misquoting that’s just making up a quote

00:53:51.420 –> 00:54:07.980
Jeff Louella: And it looks at that going like, oh, that’s not great. And then just the topics that were in there. I think are easily understandable by most easily understandable, but most SEOs won’t say it’s black magic and that people were back there, controlling it like

00:54:08.430 –> 00:54:10.470
Jeff Louella: Of course they have people looking at results and

00:54:10.500 –> 00:54:18.780
Jeff Louella: Altering algorithms based on that because they want to make sure, like we are getting what we want and as a as a customer or

00:54:18.810 –> 00:54:20.220
Angela Bergmann: You know, my wife who doesn’t get SEO.

00:54:20.640 –> 00:54:22.500
Jeff Louella: she’s getting what she wants. When she typed it in

00:54:22.860 –> 00:54:23.970
Jeff Louella: Like you have to

00:54:24.000 –> 00:54:24.990
Angela Bergmann: Look at the results.

00:54:25.020 –> 00:54:26.670
Angela Bergmann: And then all term with what

00:54:26.790 –> 00:54:28.290
Jeff Louella: What is great and it’s like again.

00:54:28.680 –> 00:54:30.300
Jeff Louella: We have 17

00:54:30.840 –> 00:54:34.590
Jeff Louella: Sites that didn’t make sense to me or one that okay it’s Wikipedia.

00:54:35.100 –> 00:54:37.920
Jeff Louella: Into the biggest site out there for information like of course they’re

00:54:37.920 –> 00:54:38.700
Jeff Louella: Gonna be up there all the time.

00:54:40.230 –> 00:54:44.190
Angela Bergmann: That’s the thing that like boggles my mind will articles like this where it’s like

00:54:44.790 –> 00:54:57.750
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, Google, the business, obviously they’re in it. They’re making money at the end of the day, though they only make money if they give people what they’re looking for. So that’s still their end goal their end goal still to give the consumer what they want.

00:54:58.860 –> 00:54:59.130
Angela Bergmann: And

00:55:00.600 –> 00:55:00.930
Angela Bergmann: It’s

00:55:00.960 –> 00:55:01.950
Jacob Stoops: It’s funny, like

00:55:03.210 –> 00:55:06.600
Jacob Stoops: Google is the reason I have a job, but then

00:55:06.720 –> 00:55:08.400
Angela Bergmann: There are a lot of times where I think

00:55:08.400 –> 00:55:09.840
Angela Bergmann: Google is

00:55:09.960 –> 00:55:12.090
Jacob Stoops: Evil sometimes. Yeah.

00:55:13.200 –> 00:55:14.790
Thank you a lot of things.

00:55:17.520 –> 00:55:18.840
Jacob Stoops: They say for users.

00:55:18.960 –> 00:55:25.350
Jacob Stoops: But really like a lot of stuff is to enrich the folks within the company and to affect

00:55:25.440 –> 00:55:25.980
Angela Bergmann: Oh, yeah.

00:55:26.790 –> 00:55:32.160
Angela Bergmann: And their shareholders and things, things of that nature. I actually don’t believe that this

00:55:32.160 –> 00:55:47.430
Jacob Stoops: Story is one of those things that I think it’s supposed to indict Google and I think maybe the average person who doesn’t do what we do will read it and think, what the hell’s going on at Google and will think that they’re the evil empire.

00:55:47.460 –> 00:55:50.760
Angela Bergmann: I think for the folks. Yeah, interviewed and for the folks

00:55:50.760 –> 00:55:59.340
Jacob Stoops: Inside the industry like I don’t take this article so seriously because I think that the way it’s being slanted is just

00:56:00.810 –> 00:56:04.650
Jacob Stoops: If stating things that aren’t a problem like they are a problem.

00:56:05.310 –> 00:56:06.570
Jacob Stoops: And I think the other side of

00:56:06.570 –> 00:56:07.740
Jacob Stoops: This is if I were one of the

00:56:07.740 –> 00:56:09.000
Jacob Stoops: People that got interviewed

00:56:10.080 –> 00:56:24.480
Jacob Stoops: I think what I was trying to say earlier is like, I don’t. I think they were being naive to think that a publication like this in in Jeff when that JC Penney thing happened. I feel like that’s more than 10 years ago the climate.

00:56:24.750 –> 00:56:27.330
Jacob Stoops: With media in that 10 years

00:56:27.660 –> 00:56:29.730
Angela Bergmann: Has changed radically

00:56:29.790 –> 00:56:31.530
Jacob Stoops: Especially with what’s going on in

00:56:31.740 –> 00:56:36.600
Jacob Stoops: Politics right now and it’s kind of like Hatfields and McCoys where like

00:56:37.380 –> 00:56:38.580
Jacob Stoops: One media outlet

00:56:39.180 –> 00:56:39.480
Angela Bergmann: Is

00:56:39.510 –> 00:56:46.140
Jacob Stoops: It’s very black and white against one side and the other media outlet outlet is very black and white against the other. And there’s no middle we

00:56:46.140 –> 00:56:55.320
Angela Bergmann: Are we are the enemy currently say I work on the agency side, but I still work for a media Publishing Company, first and foremost, we are the enemy right

00:56:55.650 –> 00:56:57.450
Jacob Stoops: So there’s a lot of bias.

00:56:57.930 –> 00:57:01.410
Jacob Stoops: Going on. So, so for these people like they have a right

00:57:01.470 –> 00:57:03.450
Jacob Stoops: To be pissed. I would be pissed if I was

00:57:03.480 –> 00:57:04.800
Jacob Stoops: misquoted or

00:57:04.830 –> 00:57:07.620
Jacob Stoops: Completely like having something a true. Oh, yeah.

00:57:07.950 –> 00:57:09.330
Angela Bergmann: You did. I didn’t say, but at the same

00:57:09.330 –> 00:57:12.900
Jacob Stoops: Time, like, consider the source. This is the wall.

00:57:12.900 –> 00:57:13.620
Jacob Stoops: Street Journal

00:57:14.190 –> 00:57:15.300
Jacob Stoops: They’re probably pushing an

00:57:15.300 –> 00:57:17.160
Jacob Stoops: Agenda, they’re not

00:57:17.760 –> 00:57:19.890
Angela Bergmann: An S. It’s not like their Search Engine Land.

00:57:19.950 –> 00:57:27.210
Jacob Stoops: Right. They’re not SEO news so they’re not people that know what goes on in the inner workings every day, like we do.

00:57:27.510 –> 00:57:44.310
Jacob Stoops: So, like, just by the very nature of it, they’re probably going to get some of it wrong or miss attribute or misunderstand some of what you’re saying. And when you layer that into the idea that there might be some sort of ulterior motive on the part of the reporter or the

00:57:45.630 –> 00:57:47.460
Jacob Stoops: The entity doing the publishing

00:57:48.690 –> 00:58:00.120
Jacob Stoops: I just think that probably the folks might have been a little naive to think that that wasn’t going to happen. So I don’t know. I don’t know whether they if I were in their situation being quoted

00:58:00.180 –> 00:58:01.680
Jacob Stoops: I probably would have provided a

00:58:01.680 –> 00:58:17.160
Jacob Stoops: Quote, to not saying that I wouldn’t have been it’s just an interesting way to, to think about it and I probably would have been mad if they miss quoted me. I don’t know if I would have thought of that way like cynically like I guess I should have expected it.

00:58:18.300 –> 00:58:30.390
Jacob Stoops: And I would imagine being in their place. Maybe they did think about that. Maybe they didn’t but like looking at it from an outsider’s perspective. I’m not surprised that it got distorted. So that’s my two cents.

00:58:31.530 –> 00:58:35.430
Jacob Stoops: Everybody in SEO who got quoted feel feel free to come and tap me but

00:58:36.300 –> 00:58:36.900
Jacob Stoops: I hope you don’t

00:58:39.000 –> 00:58:39.690
Angela Bergmann: I don’t want a part of

00:58:39.930 –> 00:58:40.650
Angela Bergmann: Twitter drama.

00:58:42.030 –> 00:58:44.460
Jacob Stoops: All right, Jeff, you can move on. That’s my piece.

00:58:44.940 –> 00:58:57.240
Jeff Louella: Cool. I mean, there was other parts to the story too. So, I mean, one of it. That was like a big thing right that Google’s manually changing things they’ve engineers behind that. Like they said that, you know, even a bot.

00:58:57.990 –> 00:58:58.950
Angela Bergmann: Placements

00:58:58.980 –> 00:59:00.420
Jeff Louella: You know, did to be better and

00:59:00.420 –> 00:59:00.960
Angela Bergmann: The search

00:59:02.220 –> 00:59:05.880
Jeff Louella: Which, you know, Hey, thank you for that upgrade, but I don’t think

00:59:06.660 –> 00:59:08.310
Jacob Stoops: That’s just called paid search

00:59:08.520 –> 00:59:09.780
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, so there was

00:59:10.080 –> 00:59:11.070
Jeff Louella: They’ve done paid search and

00:59:11.760 –> 00:59:16.050
Jeff Louella: Search. Right. So it’s, yeah, there were, there was a ton. You know, I think when the part of

00:59:16.350 –> 00:59:18.270
Angela Bergmann: A bigger budget. That’s not fair.

00:59:19.980 –> 00:59:23.400
Jeff Louella: They will parts of the Google employees thousand paid contractors

00:59:23.760 –> 00:59:29.070
Jeff Louella: Whose sole purpose is to assess the quality of the algorithm and rankings like that is a negative thing.

00:59:30.120 –> 00:59:30.780
Jeff Louella: Like and

00:59:30.990 –> 00:59:35.730
Jacob Stoops: Lots of corporations high opaque attractors to do things.

00:59:35.880 –> 00:59:48.390
Jeff Louella: But then they survey them and say, Okay, did you see the results that you expected. And they will say like yes or no. I think this should be here and there, and that’s where really brand dominance comes into play. Like if I’m searching for

00:59:48.870 –> 00:59:49.200
Jeff Louella: You know,

00:59:49.650 –> 00:59:50.820
Jeff Louella: Some sort of

00:59:51.690 –> 00:59:57.870
Jeff Louella: I don’t know, a stroller. And like I was expecting target to show up because targets right down the street from me.

00:59:58.470 –> 01:00:09.240
Jeff Louella: And I didn’t get target, I would probably say, hey, I thought like started with me there and then Google can just things to maybe get results, but they’re not like targets not calling them and saying, hey, we’re not number one.

01:00:10.110 –> 01:00:11.130
Jeff Louella: Let’s put us in this place.

01:00:11.160 –> 01:00:11.790
Jeff Louella: And they

01:00:12.510 –> 01:00:19.410
Jeff Louella: They’re saying this is across thousands of contractors, right, like a quick like you’re not just going to tweak something and be like, Okay. Like, that’s probably

01:00:19.830 –> 01:00:33.270
Jeff Louella: Everything with Google. One of the ranking factors, right, because other things come into place. You know, we know links and content and all this other stuff comes into play. But at the end, if there are giving you the results you you’re not going to use them. Right, so it’s

01:00:33.330 –> 01:00:33.780
Jeff Louella: It’s kind of

01:00:34.770 –> 01:00:36.000
Jeff Louella: The effect of where it’s

01:00:36.030 –> 01:00:45.750
Jeff Louella: You know, we see this on the side of things, right, where it’s, I mean, there’s one reason. Google is Google. And that’s because they mostly give us what we want.

01:00:46.500 –> 01:00:47.460
Angela Bergmann: As an SEO.

01:00:47.670 –> 01:00:57.480
Jeff Louella: I sometimes hate that, because I don’t want the, you know, this knowledge graph to come up above my client site, but as a consumer, like great answer my question banks.

01:00:58.920 –> 01:01:00.000
Angela Bergmann: Don’t need to go to the website so

01:01:00.030 –> 01:01:08.490
Jeff Louella: I see both sides of it and I had to think about it as a consumer side of things and consumers like we need like I’m typing into Google and he ever results.

01:01:09.150 –> 01:01:22.830
Jeff Louella: As an SEO. I hate that, like, okay, my 10 links are now push down because I have images and paid search and things in the paid side to me as a consumer who wouldn’t know it could be deceptive, to an extent.

01:01:24.270 –> 01:01:29.160
Jeff Louella: I mean, they may name it ads. But if I don’t know anything about search like I’m clicking one of those ads. Right, so it’s

01:01:30.360 –> 01:01:35.940
Jeff Louella: And hopefully Google’s placing the right ads, where they need to be collect or or someone’s paying for ads for no reason.

01:01:37.950 –> 01:01:40.320
Jeff Louella: But yeah, there’s a ton in there, I think.

01:01:41.490 –> 01:01:44.370
Jeff Louella: One of the things is like they went through and saying that

01:01:45.630 –> 01:01:47.850
Jeff Louella: They had a black list of

01:01:48.720 –> 01:01:50.310
Jeff Louella: Domain companies that they don’t

01:01:50.340 –> 01:01:51.030
Angela Bergmann: Rank well

01:01:51.660 –> 01:01:54.000
Jeff Louella: And maybe like

01:01:54.570 –> 01:01:56.100
Jeff Louella: I don’t think there’s like a whiteboard with like

01:01:56.100 –> 01:01:59.970
Jeff Louella: All, you know, or if you ever watch the TV show blacklist.

01:02:01.380 –> 01:02:02.670
Jeff Louella: Yeah, or anything like that.

01:02:02.670 –> 01:02:03.900
Angela Bergmann: But it’s like hey

01:02:04.170 –> 01:02:06.660
Jeff Louella: There’s spammers out there and of course

01:02:06.810 –> 01:02:07.230
Angela Bergmann: Yeah.

01:02:07.590 –> 01:02:09.090
Jeff Louella: We don’t want them showing up.

01:02:09.120 –> 01:02:10.260
Jeff Louella: Because we weren’t following reason.

01:02:10.680 –> 01:02:14.520
Angela Bergmann: Now it does not exist for a reason.

01:02:16.590 –> 01:02:20.820
Angela Bergmann: And they’ve got all those files were self reporting.

01:02:22.500 –> 01:02:23.250
Angela Bergmann: So, I mean, I think.

01:02:23.280 –> 01:02:25.620
Jeff Louella: As SEOs we get this and we see it as bad and I

01:02:25.710 –> 01:02:27.720
Angela Bergmann: Understand the backlash lash out there.

01:02:28.440 –> 01:02:29.970
Jeff Louella: On there, but it’s one of those where

01:02:31.350 –> 01:02:39.210
Jeff Louella: Maybe this is where like we were talking about earlier that like I feel like the beginner stuff that I like to look like everyone knows that.

01:02:40.110 –> 01:02:51.360
Jeff Louella: But there’s, you know, and it comes to things like that, especially in the Wall Street Journal, maybe point 1% knows, like the truth there and that’s where it comes damaging and I think we also tried to

01:02:51.390 –> 01:02:53.280
Angela Bergmann: defend ourselves as SEOs

01:02:53.460 –> 01:02:56.730
Jeff Louella: Plenty of times we. There’s a lot of bad

01:02:56.910 –> 01:02:57.600
Angela Bergmann: News out there.

01:02:57.660 –> 01:02:58.380
Right, so

01:03:00.270 –> 01:03:02.130
Jeff Louella: We don’t want to be misquoted like a good ones don’t.

01:03:02.160 –> 01:03:04.320
Jeff Louella: Be misquoted or see like we’re playing

01:03:04.560 –> 01:03:07.290
Angela Bergmann: Like magic that’s going on. So, I get that.

01:03:10.590 –> 01:03:14.190
Angela Bergmann: I think that’s where I think some of the frustration for that article comes from is that it’s

01:03:15.390 –> 01:03:17.220
Angela Bergmann: A more highly regarded new sort of

01:03:19.110 –> 01:03:24.870
Angela Bergmann: Niche recording misreporting about our industry when we already. We already have enough crap that we have to

01:03:28.290 –> 01:03:30.030
Angela Bergmann: Add them in. Now, to think

01:03:31.620 –> 01:03:33.210
Angela Bergmann: That is a good point and

01:03:34.260 –> 01:03:43.890
Jacob Stoops: Jeff, you brought up a good point. Like, there are a lot of bad SEO is out there. And one of the thoughts that was occurring in my brain was, well, if I’m a bad SEO like

01:03:44.460 –> 01:03:55.830
Jacob Stoops: Do I know that I’m a bad SEO and probably the answer is, not always. And I’m not saying any of those folks are bad SEOs but what occurred to me. Next is if I were a good SEO.

01:03:56.730 –> 01:04:04.380
Jacob Stoops: And this is some sort of a smear against Google or a sneer against SEO in general.

01:04:05.040 –> 01:04:18.390
Jacob Stoops: There might be the perception that I’m a bad SEO and I wouldn’t want that perception associated with me if, indeed, I was a good SEO. So yeah, I could see where the folks might get mad about that. It is a good question. I never

01:04:18.390 –> 01:04:22.320
Jeff Louella: Thought about was advantage to that I know if I was an SEO.

01:04:23.730 –> 01:04:35.040
Jeff Louella: Like the link builders realize that there. I guess spammers and other spammers right so it’s, yeah. But there’s, I mean there. I know there’s white hat Red Hat and things like that so

01:04:36.630 –> 01:04:38.220
Angela Bergmann: It’s interesting because I just don’t

01:04:39.060 –> 01:04:54.870
Jeff Louella: I do find that that that look right with companies that like, oh, SEO is black magic or SEO is is bad and actually fighting internal politics at companies where I’m trying to tell a developer, how to code a site a certain way.

01:04:55.200 –> 01:04:56.040
Jeff Louella: Am I giving you the code.

01:04:56.400 –> 01:04:57.630
Angela Bergmann: We need these results at the

01:04:57.630 –> 01:04:58.500
Jeff Louella: End and

01:04:58.530 –> 01:05:00.150
Jeff Louella: They think of me as like

01:05:01.500 –> 01:05:02.220
Angela Bergmann: The enemy.

01:05:02.490 –> 01:05:04.080
Jeff Louella: The enemy and something so

01:05:04.890 –> 01:05:08.220
Jeff Louella: Having more fuel to their fire is not what I’m looking for.

01:05:08.700 –> 01:05:09.300
Angela Bergmann: And it. Yeah.

01:05:09.360 –> 01:05:10.440
Jeff Louella: Yeah, I’m not gonna say like

01:05:11.010 –> 01:05:17.760
Jeff Louella: Hey trust everything in SEO says also because I think that’s why there could be some misquotes in that article, depending on the interview.

01:05:18.660 –> 01:05:27.090
Jeff Louella: Like there are plenty of SEO is out there who believe Google’s manipulating your search results. And that’s why they can’t get the number one. That’s what they’re telling their clients like you’ll never be

01:05:27.630 –> 01:05:29.430
Jeff Louella: Target because their target.

01:05:29.850 –> 01:05:37.890
Jeff Louella: And there might be some truth to that. But to say that Google reserve this spot for target is not. Yeah, it’s not right. It’s

01:05:38.550 –> 01:05:43.290
Jeff Louella: Become become Amazon like Amazon started off as a guy in the back of his truck like delivering books.

01:05:43.830 –> 01:05:52.860
Jeff Louella: And now he’s Amazon right and not everyone can do that of course it’s a it’s an amazing story, but the same time you know it’s it’s really hard for small business.

01:05:53.370 –> 01:06:05.790
Jeff Louella: Right now to rank for those top end terms. You got to find a better way. You know, whether it’s social or just giving customers different, you know, becoming that authority becoming that like expertise.

01:06:06.750 –> 01:06:15.480
Jeff Louella: It’s it’s a lot of work and it’s not something you can pay $500 a month to do, especially when you’re fighting against like someone like Target and Amazon in

01:06:15.870 –> 01:06:16.500
Angela Bergmann: Our space.

01:06:17.610 –> 01:06:27.240
Angela Bergmann: And the point that I always make people to as those top terms are going to be your conversion point. Anyways, so just ignore them like they’re not going to actually turn into dollars for you. You don’t want that traffic.

01:06:29.070 –> 01:06:30.240
Jacob Stoops: But people have vanity.

01:06:31.050 –> 01:06:33.450
Angela Bergmann: And people have egos.

01:06:34.080 –> 01:06:35.490
Angela Bergmann: And that’s the problem.

01:06:35.670 –> 01:06:39.150
Angela Bergmann: They want those terms. Yeah, and have them so

01:06:40.410 –> 01:06:49.470
Jacob Stoops: Anyways. So Jeff, I know that there’s some other news, we’re running short on short on time. So I want to dive into structured data.

01:06:51.660 –> 01:06:54.120
Jacob Stoops: So, Angela. I know.

01:06:54.540 –> 01:06:55.200
You were saying

01:06:56.340 –> 01:06:57.150
That you do

01:06:58.530 –> 01:07:07.770
Jacob Stoops: You work all the time in structured data. So I guess what are, what are your thoughts. What do you like about it. What do you not like about it. What would you recommend to people.

01:07:09.360 –> 01:07:24.540
Angela Bergmann: So I’ll start with the thing that I don’t like about it on. I don’t like how little visibility, there is into the reporting for it because of how critical it’s become so their search console. I can see some rich snippet information.

01:07:26.940 –> 01:07:27.960
Angela Bergmann: Kind of what again.

01:07:29.190 –> 01:07:34.920
Angela Bergmann: Like at least there’s that visibility, so I can show the eyeball, um,

01:07:36.060 –> 01:07:49.440
Angela Bergmann: So I’ve started, including that in my reporting for clients but but more robust reporting specific to snippet placement would be amazing, because I do at the end of the day, understand that it’s

01:07:51.210 –> 01:07:57.780
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, it’s tough to the Google can make money, but it also is user experience, the less the user has to click the happier. They are

01:07:59.250 –> 01:08:06.990
Angela Bergmann: And so Google is going to make their money. So I totally 100% yet it from their side, but I really want

01:08:08.970 –> 01:08:26.130
Angela Bergmann: To be able to show my clients, where they’re showing up like here’s all the backend work that I’ve done. Here’s all the coding that we’ve done implemented and it’s working. Here’s the effect that it’s having not just looked at all eyeballs that for you. Yeah.

01:08:28.920 –> 01:08:29.760
Angela Bergmann: You like it.

01:08:31.680 –> 01:08:41.880
Jacob Stoops: The thing that I find interesting in like Jeff, I would say, Jeff, you’re probably a little bit more technical than, than I am, although I’m pretty I’m pretty technical is

01:08:42.900 –> 01:08:51.870
Jacob Stoops: Everybody knows, quote unquote, I’m gonna say quote unquote knows that structured data is supposedly a good thing, right.

01:08:53.040 –> 01:09:03.390
Jacob Stoops: And there’s all kinds of structured data out there and I’m glad that we’re now calling it structured data because that’s the larger umbrella. A lot of people just call it and I keep going well.

01:09:03.390 –> 01:09:04.680
Angela Bergmann: That’s, that’s one type

01:09:05.160 –> 01:09:05.580
Jacob Stoops: But like

01:09:05.610 –> 01:09:17.850
Jacob Stoops: There are a bunch of other not a bunch. But there are other types of structured data that Google can use. So people a lot of times get structured data and confused confused and

01:09:18.210 –> 01:09:18.780
Angela Bergmann: Yeah.

01:09:19.050 –> 01:09:19.530
I find it.

01:09:20.580 –> 01:09:39.300
Jacob Stoops: I find that part. Interesting. But the thing, the thing about structured data in general is is when we’re doing a technical audit or when we’re working on a sites technical foundation that is one of our leading recommendations in terms of things that we often see lacking that need

01:09:39.480 –> 01:09:41.250
Angela Bergmann: Implemented but the thought.

01:09:41.280 –> 01:09:53.430
Jacob Stoops: Always occurs to me is, should it be, should it be one of our leading recommendations. And the reason why is there are so many types of structured data out there.

01:09:54.120 –> 01:10:07.050
Jacob Stoops: What the things that actually populate rich snippets in search results versus the amount of structured data that’s available that you could mark your site up with. It’s like

01:10:07.110 –> 01:10:08.460
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, and percent

01:10:08.850 –> 01:10:11.820
Jacob Stoops: Or 20% or I don’t even know what the percentage is but like

01:10:12.690 –> 01:10:14.670
Jacob Stoops: You could mark mark the

01:10:14.790 –> 01:10:28.440
Jacob Stoops: Crap out of your site with all kinds of structured data and there’s no proof. There’s no proof that it’s actually doing anything beneficial for you until you get some sort of a rich snippet.

01:10:28.890 –> 01:10:39.180
Jacob Stoops: And what you’re saying and it’s in. It’s very true is even when you get that the reporting is so limited in terms in terms of is it doing anything valuable.

01:10:39.540 –> 01:10:56.730
Jacob Stoops: For you that it always makes me scratch my head when I hear folks go yeah structured data is is good and we want to feed Google a bunch of information and we need to get that implemented right away because it’s critical to technical site health

01:10:57.330 –> 01:10:58.650
Jacob Stoops: And the thing I always like

01:10:59.130 –> 01:11:00.180
Jacob Stoops: Take a step back and

01:11:00.180 –> 01:11:05.280
Jacob Stoops: Think is okay. I agree. But like, when we’re talking to the client like

01:11:05.730 –> 01:11:19.650
Jacob Stoops: A lot of times they need proof and they need evidence and they need a reason to prioritize something in their development queue or to display something in their development huge prioritize your recommendations. And the thing I

01:11:19.650 –> 01:11:19.980
Angela Bergmann: Always

01:11:20.040 –> 01:11:22.080
Jacob Stoops: Worry about is we have such a limited

01:11:22.470 –> 01:11:35.850
Jacob Stoops: window to get things implemented and to make an impact before our contract runs out on the agency side and I always worry that we’re blindly following quote unquote best practices because Google

01:11:36.450 –> 01:11:50.280
Jacob Stoops: Pushes it or because we think it’s a best practice without ever testing it on the other end without testing say hey I implemented blog post schema. Okay, well, that’s great. Did it do anything for you.

01:11:51.630 –> 01:11:54.120
Jacob Stoops: I don’t know. That’s usually the answer. I don’t know.

01:11:55.200 –> 01:12:11.460
Jacob Stoops: But it’s the best practice. So I guess I should implement it and the thing about it is that that honestly that drives me crazy. And what I wish is one that they were better recording and to I wish that more SEOs with think along the

01:12:12.570 –> 01:12:18.300
Jacob Stoops: Would use the Frank. The, the line of thinking of test it and measure

01:12:18.690 –> 01:12:19.800
Angela Bergmann: Once you implement it.

01:12:20.190 –> 01:12:21.210
Angela Bergmann: You what then happens

01:12:21.210 –> 01:12:38.610
Jacob Stoops: After that, from a result standpoint and document it so that when you go to another client and you recommend that particular type of structured data scheme or whatever you can say, hey, I did this on this client. And it worked out really well. And here’s why. And

01:12:39.180 –> 01:12:40.440
Jacob Stoops: Times, like, especially with

01:12:40.440 –> 01:12:49.020
Jacob Stoops: Things that don’t trigger rich snippets, it’s going to be correlation and not necessarily causation, because there’s not really a lot of reporting on it.

01:12:50.820 –> 01:12:51.990
Angela Bergmann: But yeah, that’s all I can.

01:12:51.990 –> 01:12:56.100
Angela Bergmann: Do and say, oh, well, we saw this many more eyeballs.

01:12:57.330 –> 01:13:07.890
Angela Bergmann: That then we do an audit and then we switch over to analytics and we look at, like, they’re your of your organic and then see if their conversion rate is increased and let’s talk about your correlating that if it did increase

01:13:08.460 –> 01:13:15.060
Angela Bergmann: It’s probably due to the snippet capture. There’s that connection, isn’t there yet. Yeah. And like

01:13:15.630 –> 01:13:23.460
Jacob Stoops: Don’t get me wrong, I love working unstructured data like nothing makes me happier than to sit for an hour and to develop some like

01:13:23.940 –> 01:13:35.730
Jacob Stoops: Clean beautiful JSON structured data market to pass over to the client, say, hey, just throw this into your page. And it’s that part for me because I come from, like, a technical background like

01:13:36.240 –> 01:13:44.550
Jacob Stoops: I enjoy doing that and I enjoy putting those recommendations together for clients and I enjoy even more when they implement them and they implement them correctly.

01:13:44.880 –> 01:13:45.990
Jacob Stoops: When I can go. Yes.

01:13:46.440 –> 01:13:47.670
Jacob Stoops: data testing tool and

01:13:47.670 –> 01:13:50.460
Jacob Stoops: See no validation like that.

01:13:50.820 –> 01:13:51.630
Jacob Stoops: That stuff like

01:13:52.080 –> 01:13:59.310
Jacob Stoops: That makes my heart happy but like the cynic in me and I think every good SEO is also part cynic.

01:14:00.030 –> 01:14:01.020
Angela Bergmann: Automatically

01:14:01.080 –> 01:14:02.670
Jacob Stoops: Also thinks like, Okay, I’ve got a

01:14:02.730 –> 01:14:10.650
Jacob Stoops: I’ve got a finite amount of time with this client, potentially, and I’ve got a finite amount of things that they can implement and I always think like

01:14:10.710 –> 01:14:11.070
Angela Bergmann: Yeah.

01:14:12.000 –> 01:14:13.080
Jacob Stoops: Is this the thing that’s going to

01:14:13.080 –> 01:14:24.300
Jacob Stoops: move the needle or is this the thing we’re just trying to get in place, because it’s a best practice and like I think we should all think about the things that move the needle and move those up in the queue before the things that

01:14:24.840 –> 01:14:25.320
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, our

01:14:25.350 –> 01:14:27.450
Angela Bergmann: Housekeeping best practice items.

01:14:29.040 –> 01:14:43.080
Angela Bergmann: And it depends on the vertical to so like if you’re, if you have a client that’s in a vertical where eyeballs are really important. So I one of the one of the clients that I run very high volume schema for is a realtor

01:14:44.610 –> 01:14:51.960
Angela Bergmann: They care about eyeballs and they they’re competing against Zillow and Trulia and all of these sites. So realistically

01:14:52.290 –> 01:15:00.480
Angela Bergmann: They’re generating content they’re doing all the other stuff that we tend to do for clients. So they’re literally a technical client for us. I

01:15:00.870 –> 01:15:07.890
Angela Bergmann: Hold their developer accountable. The page speed improvements and then I implement schema on their site. And that’s all I do for them.

01:15:08.580 –> 01:15:20.910
Angela Bergmann: And they’ve seen huge organic growth year over year because of that, but they’re one of those situations where I get to have fun and do that because they’re just looking for visibility, they’re not looking for conversions.

01:15:21.750 –> 01:15:32.430
Angela Bergmann: How do I have plants were schema might be fantastic, but they don’t even have content so content got to come first. Oh, let me ask you this.

01:15:32.730 –> 01:15:34.860
Angela Bergmann: How did you get into a situation where

01:15:35.130 –> 01:15:41.640
Jacob Stoops: The client trust you enough to implement schema, because usually like developers are like, keep your damn hands off.

01:15:43.950 –> 01:15:56.370
Angela Bergmann: Um, basically, the way I so we did an audit of their site. We have a custom audit. That’s about 120 pages looks about 350 different points that we go over

01:15:57.630 –> 01:16:06.390
Angela Bergmann: Everything and then really for them. I was like, you know, you as a realtor you have great content, your, your descriptions for your homes are amazing.

01:16:07.410 –> 01:16:18.810
Angela Bergmann: your site’s going to be a little slow, but it’s a little slower than I think it should be especially when comparing it to your competitors and I pitched them. I said, here’s the thing. I was like, you’re not going to be Zillow

01:16:20.340 –> 01:16:34.500
Angela Bergmann: You’re just not but you can beat the other local realtors because somebody’s going to find a home on Zillow and then they know that they’re going to have to go to somebody local so you can be the second result after those big company.

01:16:35.850 –> 01:16:50.370
Angela Bergmann: And I taught them because they had no. The reason they had reached out as they’d notice that one of their competitive agencies was showing up before them for the same homes and I determined that it was because their title and none of the structure was pretty terrible.

01:16:51.600 –> 01:17:08.430
Angela Bergmann: Got their developers to change it saw within like a couple of months saw drastic change where they were starting to beat them out. And I was like, here’s the next step. The next step is going to be applying schema because they don’t have it Zillow does

01:17:09.480 –> 01:17:14.550
Angela Bergmann: That that’s your that’s your sweet spot. And it’s approved to work.

01:17:16.560 –> 01:17:27.690
Angela Bergmann: So it was fun. We had a really good relationship with this client already on our paid search side so that helps as well and just having a good real good trusting relationship with this client.

01:17:28.200 –> 01:17:39.630
Angela Bergmann: And they kind of let me roll those dice and I was like, I think this is going to pay off. So I told them to. I said, You know, I can’t make any guarantees on this, but this is what my gut is telling me.

01:17:41.280 –> 01:17:44.850
Angela Bergmann: And a year later, we we’ve seen, we’ve seen it pan out

01:17:46.350 –> 01:17:57.990
Angela Bergmann: But there is that fear you know as an SEO as it goes like, you’re like, No, no, this really should be the thing. It should should work. It should work. Yeah, please God, let it warm.

01:18:00.420 –> 01:18:03.390
Angela Bergmann: Google does they have some examples like

01:18:03.540 –> 01:18:04.710
Jeff Louella: Google does give some good advice.

01:18:04.890 –> 01:18:06.120
Jeff Louella: On like

01:18:06.720 –> 01:18:17.820
Jeff Louella: How to schema. Like, like if you do it right. Like it doesn’t guarantee, but you can get a nice you know how to section on your mobile phone or FAQ schema. But then there are those ones out there.

01:18:17.880 –> 01:18:18.120
Angela Bergmann: Like

01:18:18.900 –> 01:18:23.010
Jeff Louella: I don’t know, I just kind of looked up real quick there like one for comic books.

01:18:23.040 –> 01:18:24.810
Jeff Louella: I mean, I guess if you have a comic book site.

01:18:24.810 –> 01:18:29.430
Jeff Louella: Or stuff, but it’s like the product. Is it, like, Is Google going to do anything. Yeah.

01:18:29.460 –> 01:18:30.540
Jeff Louella: On that one or

01:18:31.050 –> 01:18:39.090
Jeff Louella: Are they gonna do anything for if you are. I don’t know, looking here like movies make sense. Like there’s certain ones I know events.

01:18:39.420 –> 01:18:42.630
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, certain ones that I know that we need to to be

01:18:43.770 –> 01:18:59.400
Jeff Louella: You know ingested into Google properly and kind of displayed in their stuff that there’s ones that we need. But then there are a whole bunch out there like I know bread crumbs, give, give me good bread crumbs. I know that you know there’s tools out there.

01:18:59.430 –> 01:18:59.790
Angela Bergmann: Yeah.

01:18:59.940 –> 01:19:00.750
Jeff Louella: A whole bunch that are

01:19:01.230 –> 01:19:13.020
Jeff Louella: No clue on local like I usually don’t recommend it really easy depending again on vertical insight, like there’s a there’s a handful that I recommend and then either are so many more.

01:19:13.740 –> 01:19:25.320
Jeff Louella: And is it like eventually Google is going to get around to these and they’re eventually going to be put in there. Are we ahead of the game are we wasting our time like and Jake is you’re saying, You’re right, like there are up.

01:19:25.500 –> 01:19:26.010
Jeff Louella: Even if

01:19:26.070 –> 01:19:29.490
Jeff Louella: We have a finite amount of time to know results.

01:19:30.090 –> 01:19:31.380
Jeff Louella: And thinking for like

01:19:31.800 –> 01:19:33.930
Jeff Louella: Four years down the road is not one of them right now.

01:19:34.950 –> 01:19:35.250
Jeff Louella: And

01:19:35.880 –> 01:19:36.930
Angela Bergmann: I’m hoping that

01:19:37.320 –> 01:19:45.870
Jeff Louella: Structured data helps other things too, right, like so right now we have things like open graph that like when you put it on your site and some post on to

01:19:46.230 –> 01:19:57.270
Jeff Louella: Your Pinterest or Facebook, it pulls that information in. From there, you know, Twitter has their Twitter cards and stuff but like I think structured data can feed other things like your calendar, because you have an event.

01:19:57.690 –> 01:19:59.280
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, your calendar should integrate with

01:19:59.280 –> 01:20:03.180
Jeff Louella: Schema to pull those events into your calendar and things like that. Yep scheme is

01:20:03.210 –> 01:20:04.350
Angela Bergmann: Great that way, but

01:20:04.380 –> 01:20:08.850
Jeff Louella: I don’t see like Microsoft Outlook using them yet.

01:20:08.880 –> 01:20:10.830
Jeff Louella: Right, so it’s we do it as SEOs

01:20:10.830 –> 01:20:11.580
Angela Bergmann: For SEO.

01:20:12.060 –> 01:20:26.190
Jeff Louella: And I feel like there’s such a big potential for every other type of app out there that needs to be data. I think on my website, which is sad. These days, I think of it as like a feed that I’m feeding Google, um, you know, if you think

01:20:26.220 –> 01:20:26.910
Jeff Louella: About it as like

01:20:27.090 –> 01:20:28.110
Jeff Louella: Here’s my XML feed.

01:20:28.110 –> 01:20:32.550
Jeff Louella: Here’s my content for years, all these different fields. And then let’s get it to make it pretty for customers.

01:20:33.540 –> 01:20:49.110
Jeff Louella: It’s kind of how I think and things, but not everybody does, of course, but I would love for you know like music playlist schema to be able to be ingested by my iTunes app, but it’s not there right now. Like it’s it’s really just

01:20:49.110 –> 01:20:50.100
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, just

01:20:52.230 –> 01:21:05.340
Angela Bergmann: Like the only ones that I really focus on is like Product Listing blog FAQ. Um, we’re doing a lot of with the medical related schema.

01:21:06.570 –> 01:21:09.420
Angela Bergmann: Just because that’s huge in search, obviously.

01:21:10.830 –> 01:21:11.490
Angela Bergmann: And then

01:21:14.070 –> 01:21:24.660
Angela Bergmann: Organizational schema like by default we essentially load organizational schema for every client. And that’s really and then it’s like, based on the client kind of where we go from there. So,

01:21:24.870 –> 01:21:30.360
Angela Bergmann: I always tell clients because they’ll ask about that. How do I get position zero. I’m like, well, you have to have good content first

01:21:33.300 –> 01:21:34.200
Jacob Stoops: Ever had

01:21:34.650 –> 01:21:53.970
Jacob Stoops: Any instances where you recommended a particular I’m going to say product schema, for example, and a client was apprehensive about some of the features of their product or offering showing up in search results for a consumer to see

01:21:59.430 –> 01:22:00.930
That I haven’t yet.

01:22:02.580 –> 01:22:03.120
Jacob Stoops: Yeah.

01:22:03.210 –> 01:22:05.910
Jacob Stoops: I have a, I have a story where I

01:22:07.650 –> 01:22:21.600
Jacob Stoops: had a client who is I guess what I would call up they make a premium product. So it’s like the within what they do. It’s like the Cadillac, not the Honda version.

01:22:21.630 –> 01:22:23.460
Angela Bergmann: Of a product and

01:22:23.640 –> 01:22:33.810
Jacob Stoops: They make a really great product, but we were working to implement product schema. And one of the things that’s a huge component of that is, price, price and availability and

01:22:36.780 –> 01:22:39.480
Angela Bergmann: They did not want to expose price in

01:22:41.220 –> 01:22:42.300
Jacob Stoops: Right, yeah.

01:22:42.690 –> 01:22:43.890
Angela Bergmann: Their price is

01:22:43.920 –> 01:22:53.490
Jacob Stoops: A little bit higher. And I thought that that was an interesting position to take, given that a consumer is going to figure it out once they click

01:22:54.180 –> 01:22:55.230
Angela Bergmann: And get to the site.

01:22:55.260 –> 01:23:04.320
Jacob Stoops: But when I think about it from their perspective. Well, the consumer sees that price they may never click on it in the first place.

01:23:04.380 –> 01:23:11.220
Angela Bergmann: And they’re not going to understand the context is they’re not going to understand the context, they’re just going to see this much more expensive thing.

01:23:11.220 –> 01:23:12.720
Angela Bergmann: Especially if other sites.

01:23:12.930 –> 01:23:15.930
Jacob Stoops: In the competitive set are using that schema and

01:23:15.930 –> 01:23:22.830
Angela Bergmann: showing their price. Oh, although I think the argument could be made for a client like that that

01:23:24.570 –> 01:23:26.430
Angela Bergmann: I’m more scared when there’s no price.

01:23:27.600 –> 01:23:28.080
Angela Bergmann: Right.

01:23:28.140 –> 01:23:32.070
Jacob Stoops: What right, and like, okay, if I’m a consumer and

01:23:32.100 –> 01:23:33.540
Jacob Stoops: I look at that and I’m

01:23:33.960 –> 01:23:35.520
Jacob Stoops: Looking for that particular

01:23:35.520 –> 01:23:41.100
Jacob Stoops: PRODUCT, AND I’M AFRAID OF THE PRICE my really the right type of consumer for you. Anyways, is

01:23:41.160 –> 01:23:41.970
Angela Bergmann: One. Yeah.

01:23:42.600 –> 01:23:43.530
Jacob Stoops: And I’ve seen

01:23:43.830 –> 01:23:55.830
Jacob Stoops: Not what this schema, necessarily, but with I’ve seen with review schema, the one of the few times I’ve been able, and this was in the past when there just wasn’t a lot of data.

01:23:57.090 –> 01:24:01.710
Jacob Stoops: YOU WOULD THERE WASN’T THE NICE Google Search Console data that there is now where

01:24:02.940 –> 01:24:10.530
Jacob Stoops: We had star ratings and there was a time when because they worked with a specific vendor bizarre voice.

01:24:11.790 –> 01:24:12.330
Jacob Stoops: Who I hate

01:24:13.530 –> 01:24:14.940
Jacob Stoops: They worked with that vendor.

01:24:14.940 –> 01:24:16.140
Jacob Stoops: And their

01:24:16.170 –> 01:24:17.250
Jacob Stoops: star ratings.

01:24:17.970 –> 01:24:21.720
Jacob Stoops: Magically dropped off because their schema was wrong and then

01:24:22.470 –> 01:24:35.340
Jacob Stoops: Once we worked with bizarre voice to get that fixed the star ratings came back and we because we had that nice apples to apples comparison were able to get a very clean.

01:24:35.820 –> 01:24:50.070
Jacob Stoops: Before, and after. And were able to get a very clean incremental click through rate gain based on just the presence of star ratings in in search results, and it was substantial and for that brand in

01:24:50.070 –> 01:24:50.820
Angela Bergmann: Particular

01:24:51.210 –> 01:24:52.530
Jacob Stoops: There are massive worldwide.

01:24:52.530 –> 01:25:10.830
Jacob Stoops: Brand. So an increasing click through rate of 1% for them met hundreds of thousands of more visitors just by having star ratings and that’s the argument that I always try to use with with clients in terms of things that are going to trigger rich snippets in search results is like hey

01:25:12.210 –> 01:25:19.830
Jacob Stoops: It’s highly likely that more people are going to click on your, your page as a result of this, this feature, but

01:25:19.920 –> 01:25:20.250
Angela Bergmann: Yeah.

01:25:20.640 –> 01:25:22.020
Jacob Stoops: On the business side they’re, you know,

01:25:22.020 –> 01:25:31.110
Jacob Stoops: They’re definitely thinking of their business and they’re trying to they’re there, they were taking the opposite stance that if people see our price, which is a Cadillac price.

01:25:32.370 –> 01:25:39.750
Jacob Stoops: Maybe there’ll be scared away. So that was an interesting, interesting little tidbit that I’ve that I’ve been through before it was

01:25:40.770 –> 01:25:43.110
Jacob Stoops: Interesting. I’ll just say, I’ll leave it at that.

01:25:47.640 –> 01:25:49.590
Jeff Louella: DOESN’T SURPRISE either and

01:25:49.710 –> 01:25:51.210
Jacob Stoops: Yeah, it’s, it’s

01:25:51.840 –> 01:25:59.760
Jeff Louella: Not because they don’t want to. It’s because they also have half their businesses are franchise and the franchisees

01:26:00.450 –> 01:26:01.710
Angela Bergmann: Price. Ooh.

01:26:02.340 –> 01:26:05.220
Jeff Louella: And even though it’s mostly the same there are

01:26:05.400 –> 01:26:06.780
Jeff Louella: Outliers, where if

01:26:06.900 –> 01:26:25.440
Jeff Louella: That same business has a store in Alaska. It takes the they sell it for more expensive because you have to ship to Alaska to have it in their store. And so they charge maybe $1 more and they don’t you know when people going in the store saying like your website says this price.

01:26:26.610 –> 01:26:33.090
Jeff Louella: For this price. So the only way to get prices is when you get to the website is to select your local store and then you get that local stores pricing.

01:26:34.380 –> 01:26:39.720
Jeff Louella: But Google does not have a local store and or or if they did, it would always be

01:26:39.990 –> 01:26:54.930
Jeff Louella: The pricing and that’s one of those where they can’t do it. And I feel sometimes I I’m fighting a battle with, you know, one hand tied behind my back because matter all the arguments I have like they’re like, we have to look out for our franchisees

01:26:55.980 –> 01:27:03.450
Jeff Louella: So it’s, it’s an interesting battle there. So we try to do other things, of course, but like we just give the highest price, then, and then they were saying they don’t want to do that either.

01:27:04.200 –> 01:27:07.470
Angela Bergmann: Well, people are surprised when it’s lower on the website.

01:27:07.830 –> 01:27:09.150
Jeff Louella: When it’s cheaper.

01:27:10.620 –> 01:27:11.040
Angela Bergmann: But they

01:27:11.070 –> 01:27:14.940
Jeff Louella: They have that fear, then no one would come to the site, then if they knew it was more money than

01:27:15.390 –> 01:27:16.260
Jacob Stoops: What I’m

01:27:17.460 –> 01:27:20.070
Jacob Stoops: What do you guys think is the future of structured data.

01:27:26.460 –> 01:27:40.440
Angela Bergmann: I think rejected point out, like the tada further time. Yeah. So having it not just be Information Center. Google is being able to leverage that in other ways at a calendar invite

01:27:40.950 –> 01:27:56.370
Angela Bergmann: You know load something add something to an app like I think further leveraging of it because it’s structured data format it in a way that makes it easy to process into things. So how can we use that better.

01:27:57.900 –> 01:27:58.110
Angela Bergmann: Yeah.

01:27:58.260 –> 01:27:59.340
Jeff Louella: I agree. That’s where I

01:27:59.340 –> 01:28:01.170
Jeff Louella: Think, and I see

01:28:01.230 –> 01:28:06.960
Jeff Louella: You know, I know, wants to there’s a million like a million, but they keep growing the

01:28:07.350 –> 01:28:08.340
Jeff Louella: Other the other does it

01:28:08.700 –> 01:28:10.080
Jeff Louella: Because everything right, it’s

01:28:10.200 –> 01:28:15.660
Jeff Louella: Gonna look at a coffee Cal Poly. We might have coffee cup schema. One day when there’s this different sub levels because you can

01:28:15.660 –> 01:28:16.560
Jeff Louella: Keep adding like

01:28:16.920 –> 01:28:19.590
Jeff Louella: You start off with a thing. And then we break that down and we break that

01:28:19.590 –> 01:28:20.190
Jeff Louella: Down and

01:28:20.220 –> 01:28:20.550
Angela Bergmann: Yeah.

01:28:21.480 –> 01:28:22.920
Jeff Louella: To the point where we can’t

01:28:23.400 –> 01:28:29.160
Jeff Louella: Can we all we can meet over structured data, probably, but at the same time.

01:28:29.250 –> 01:28:30.570
Angela Bergmann: It’s structure, I think.

01:28:31.140 –> 01:28:44.250
Jeff Louella: The goal of structured data is off of the web also so or not. So often the web, but off of like your web page and into apps and things like that were made, just like sharing easy. I kind of think of it as like

01:28:44.970 –> 01:28:53.460
Jeff Louella: Elon Musk open sourced the electrical system for Tesla because he knows that if there’s 17 different plugins to plug in

01:28:54.120 –> 01:29:07.890
Jeff Louella: That know like if I had a Ford electric car, you had a Chevy and then someone wasn’t a Tesla, we could interchange our electrical plugs, there would be no electric cars will not take off because everyone is the same gas tank.

01:29:07.920 –> 01:29:09.090
Right, so there are

01:29:10.410 –> 01:29:16.740
Jeff Louella: You know the structure to that that and reason why there’s a certain sizes and components to it so

01:29:17.040 –> 01:29:22.710
Jeff Louella: If I have an app, it’d be awesome to be able to, like, I know my app can interface with your app, because we use similar structures in our data.

01:29:23.010 –> 01:29:33.720
Jeff Louella: I can send you my map results. I can switch between being and someone else because and Google Maps, because they use the same structure in a structured data, I think.

01:29:34.140 –> 01:29:36.450
Angela Bergmann: That helps machine, talk to the machine.

01:29:36.960 –> 01:29:41.190
Jeff Louella: And at the end of the day, it’s you know, it’s just trying to figure it out and makes everything more

01:29:41.760 –> 01:29:45.420
Angela Bergmann: And that’s the way I hope it goes, because I

01:29:45.420 –> 01:29:55.110
Jeff Louella: Really feel as kind of a nerd who like to develop and he likes to interface with other systems. I don’t want to have to have an Excel document in between and

01:29:55.140 –> 01:29:56.640
Jeff Louella: Transform all my data.

01:29:56.970 –> 01:29:58.290
Jeff Louella: You know, and to then

01:29:58.350 –> 01:30:14.280
Jeff Louella: Push it off to somewhere else, which I do a lot of my reporting now. But, you know, I’d love to be able to have, like, you know what is in Google Analytics, right, like a session in Adobe analytics is not what especially means in Google Analytics or a user. And there’s all these different

01:30:14.280 –> 01:30:14.760
Angela Bergmann: Terms.

01:30:15.030 –> 01:30:22.260
Jeff Louella: Of having like a structure between them all would actually be awesome, because then we can compare apples to apples and not apples to bananas, let’s let’s

01:30:23.760 –> 01:30:26.250
Jacob Stoops: So, Angela, where can people find you.

01:30:29.370 –> 01:30:29.970
Angela Bergmann: Twitter.

01:30:31.920 –> 01:30:33.390
Angela Bergmann: Twitter. I’m at Red kitten.

01:30:34.680 –> 01:30:37.530
Angela Bergmann: That’s probably the best place to find me.

01:30:38.070 –> 01:30:40.350
Angela Bergmann: That is a great handle. Where does that handle come

01:30:40.350 –> 01:30:40.680

01:30:41.850 –> 01:30:51.600
Angela Bergmann: Um, that was actually my original like one of my original domain was red kittens on and Yun was where I was blogging and it just kind of stuck.

01:30:53.430 –> 01:30:59.010
Angela Bergmann: I even use it like in World of Warcraft. So that’s my my card plate is red pitney

01:31:01.320 –> 01:31:03.750
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, mine’s just Jacob I guess I need to

01:31:03.750 –> 01:31:10.950
Jacob Stoops: Be or Jacob stoops just as Jacob stoops I guess I just in years. Jeff is just at Jeff, Luella I guess we need to get more creative.

01:31:11.340 –> 01:31:17.880
Jeff Louella: You know, there was a time in my life where I had like fun handles, and then I became like a ship poster.

01:31:19.470 –> 01:31:27.780
Jeff Louella: Looks like you know if I use my real name. It really makes me think about that. I’m going to post because when I didn’t have my real name on there like starting flame wars.

01:31:28.110 –> 01:31:28.590

01:31:30.450 –> 01:31:32.190
Jeff Louella: Like way happier using my real name.

01:31:32.250 –> 01:31:35.280
Jacob Stoops: Next episode is just all about Jeff’s burner accounts.

01:31:37.920 –> 01:31:44.880
Angela Bergmann: My Twitter does have my real name on it though. So I don’t know, getting away. Yeah, there is no anyways.

01:31:44.970 –> 01:31:52.290
Jacob Stoops: Um, thank you so much for for coming on. We really. We really appreciate it and go browns.

01:31:53.430 –> 01:31:54.540
Angela Bergmann: Yeah, go, go.

01:31:55.680 –> 01:31:56.460
Angela Bergmann: Bye everybody.

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