We discuss our experiences during COVID-19, and how we’ve all been coping, and then we dive into Jessica’s background as a mom, Bostonian, sports fan, and our mutual love of the movie The Godfather.
From a career perspective, we cover Jessica’s background in science and mathematics, front-end development, and the intersection of her technical skills with her passion for content. We track her career arc and deep dive into her experiences coming up as an SEO, building a team at Tech Target, her new role at Netsuite and so much more.
In the News
In the news we talk about the White House encouraging the usage of schema.org markup for COVID-19 announcements, as well the results of an experiment from Cyrus Shepherd of Moz that showed opting out of Google featured snippets led to a 12% traffic loss.
Finally, we deep dive into content strategy, talk about how to build your strategy from the ground up, execute the process end-to-end, how to create content that deserves a top ranking, and more.
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By Jacob Stoops — 4 months ago
We talk about:
- How Andrew’s career began 20 years ago as a broadcast journalist working at the BBC with a focus on cricket and fut ball
- How the emphasis placed on creating fresh and timely content around the sports stories of the day really opened his eyes to the power of building traffic online
- His time as Web Editor as Newsworks
- His management of the website for the Marylebone Cricket Club (MCC)
- How it all led him to found his own SEO consultancy Optimisey
- What it’s like running the Optimisey SEO meeting
- His Optimisey YouTube video series
- And more.
We also touch on the news:
This episode's deep dive
And last but not least, we dive into a few overlooked SEO fundamentals including:
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- How often simple analytics configurations seem to be overlooked
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By Jacob Stoops — 7 months ago
Listen to audio only
He is a web standards evangelist, content management specialist, amateur bread baker, member of the LondonEErs ExpressionEngine Group and a founding member of the Croydon Creatives social group.
- His early days as a graphic designer
- How he turned into a technical SEO during his 20 years within the banking industry
- His recent transition to owning his own company.
- We react to the new page speed reports in Google Search Console and other SEO news
- Deep dive on replatforms, redesigns, and website migrations.
Visit Simon’s personal website.
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Hey everybody this is Jacob Stoops and we are here with episode 27 I’m here with my brand new co host. Mr. Jeff, Louella how’s it going
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Doing pretty well.
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And for the first first time it’s me co host and also we have a special guest. AND, TODAY’S SPECIAL GUEST IS GOING TO BE Mr. Simon Cox from across the pond. How you doing, Simon.
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Are doing very well thank you chaps and lovely to see you and he
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So I know nothing about locations in the UK, other than I believe you’re in London. So I’m just a stupid American. So where exactly are you located
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Not in London.
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Now I didn’t
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Know, I used to live in the south of London. I moved about 30 miles south of that the UK is about the size of Manhattan. So distances here while they’re a big to us a tiny to you guys. You’ll travel for a day or two, just to visit SOMEBODY, YEAH. An hour or more on the train for us is forever.
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Yeah, he was quite big. But yes, I’m so let’s do you south of
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In a small village about 4000 people called Linfield has a very famous horse racing course.
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Which my office, he overlooks. Very nice. That’s
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Yeah, that’s, that’s pretty cool. I feel like everything is a it’s just generally smaller over in
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I don’t do I say Europe, European Union, not so much with Brexit.
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Yeah, you can say
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Because even if we had Brexit happens was still part of Europe on the geographical
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Right, right, right. You know,
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Unless somebody digs a great big trench and shifts as anything anything
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So let’s jump right into it. So like the point of this podcast is going to continue to be
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The origin stories of great SEOs as well as like the day to day like this is what it’s actually like. So Simon take us through your career, who you are, how you got into SEO, like, Tell us, tell us about yourself.
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SEO. I saw, I thought this was a church podcast.
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I thought that was very funny.
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And I started off.
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From school career wise you know college and I did technical illustration, our college and some graphic design, except for the four years of that. So there’s a green level, but not actual degree.
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From there I was working in studios creating our footprint, etc. This is years before the internet happened to the public as associate with the army, etc.
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Before that, um, and I was one of the first people in the country to use quality express the Page Layout program. And that got me up to London.
00:03:01.110 –> 00:03:09.690
I’m working there and had hunted all over the place. And eventually, after about two months. I got headhunted by middle and bank because they wanted somebody to
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Do their artwork for them things like checkbooks and credit cards and stuff like that. So I started working for those for them and within four years or so.
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I became aware of the internet becoming something I was already on bulletin boards. I was a big cyberpunk novel reader at the time.
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So it’s very much into that was looking at future stuff and and i thought this web seems really interesting. It looks a lot more interesting in the bulletin boards I was getting involved with sorry what managed to get myself into a pipex I don’t even remember pipex they were
00:03:48.420 –> 00:04:01.770
an ISP, the time that they disappeared. Many, many years ago they were doing call some HTML. So I managed to persuade my boss at the time to send me off on this. God knows how I did that. It was very nice guy. I think I took him out for a beer.
00:04:03.660 –> 00:04:12.870
And built my first website in about 96 beginning to end of 95 or maybe something like five he got six Batman.
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And the rest is history.
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And as far as SEO goes, I really started optimizing for Alta Vista, which was the big thing at the time. Yeah, good old days. So there’s like keywords bang last it healthy and there was about 400 websites at the time. So we all need each other, which is good.
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We got from that.
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Really oh actually wasn’t doing that full time. Let’s also doing graphic designer our work and stuff and running a built up a team doing that for me to about
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And I had a bit of a falling out with a new boss, they brought in.
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And she wasn’t she was completely out of my depth and she and I didn’t go well. So after about two weeks of that I
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Was a good friend of mine in the in the business and suddenly
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There’s this job going in group HBC group because middle band can age group at that point and they wanted somebody to design and build HBC group.com which in 99 became hbc.com
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Once the group one have been bought out by God knows how much they spent on that it wasn’t that much in those days, compared with now, but I’m sure it was a lot. They
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They couldn’t get your HBC net was owned by hand to Street Baptist Church in the States. So we were, we were told a lot to try and get that it was politically a bit sensitive, so leave that that’d be fine.
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So yeah, so I
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Picked up hbc.com Oh, I’d be gripping abc.com and I was literally building a website walking around the color to the HR team like the PR team.
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To get the what’s going on marketing and stuff, etc. And never give me your stories and what’s going on HBC group at the time and I would literally hand coded into
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Some notepads he got three Weaver was very happy with that because I could do things better and quicker.
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And I would literally pass the pages off to somebody in it. Who would then FTP up to the server somewhere. I was led to touch that bit.
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But everything else is just me by myself. Ah, yeah, good old days when you could you could do everything touched off. So that’s how I got into it and years and years of that running hbc.com for about 10 years and then we
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Built a bigger team pass off so that people are they kind of sent me back. I said, right, would you want to do. And I said, Well, I want to build an SEO team in LA. You sure yeah so built the socio team around the world. I had people in China, the Philippines.
00:07:05.880 –> 00:07:15.660
Sri Lanka and Egypt and it did have some of the states, we have a while as well. And we did huge amounts of SEO for the loss of the HBC group.
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Which is very interesting stuff very corporate very interesting
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And that’s it. Two years ago, left HSBC
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amicably to pay me off to go away, which is nice. I’ve been wanting to to go freelance for years and I’ve been doing stuff. And as you do in your bedroom at night. I’m a bit always doing that since back in the 90s.
00:07:42.630 –> 00:07:50.280
Doing bits on the side because it helped me with my job like it’s the only way to really learn to understand, especially with technical SEO. If you can’t build websites.
00:07:51.030 –> 00:07:59.520
00:08:01.950 –> 00:08:09.870
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Left HSBC and to work with my wife. Now we just set ourselves up a little bitty company. And we’ve got all sorts of interesting
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Clients from literally from the flower shop up in the village, which does rather well on the local search to web or some agencies doing International Hotel SEO and other things that come along.
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Which is great.
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So to kind of deviate. I have it on good authority that you are a train enthusiast.
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And above. Yeah, be careful here.
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That will for a lot of people put me in a subset of weirdos and
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I’m a nerd and geek, but I’m not one I build yeah I build narrow gauge model railway trains.
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Which are to scale. And there’s a there’s a great deal of precision in the men, it’s, it’s not playing trains and stuff is it’s modeling and I actually prefer the scenery more than I do, that the logos and the coaches.
00:09:18.390 –> 00:09:33.720
Open up my fellow society members him his, his podcast is one or two tonight. But yeah, it’s it’s creating miniature versions of interesting see and I i am i model narrow gauge. For me, it’s a lot more interesting. The standard gauge
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Because of the, the actual, real life situations with a world with so varied that know to navigate lines or like even in the States, whether there was plenty of navigating lines as well. So there was quite a few over here and UK
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Yeah. So I do that and that’s for me that’s really good because that’s what I work on digital all day.
00:09:55.620 –> 00:10:01.290
Doing the Madre stuff is it’s I do stuff like sobering which allows me to burn my hands quite badly.
00:10:02.310 –> 00:10:07.650
And in hell Knox’s and dangerous poisonous few years sorts of things which are can’t do
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Digital level. So yeah, lots of
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Hands on stuff on it. So it’s more atoms and pixels as a friend of mine, often said, Yeah.
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I build mini drones fly around and where the SPV goggles and like a freestyle and I have a whole workshop behind me. Also, and
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You know, soldering and things like that. Like it’s it’s fun, like I kind of go through there. Like I work on a computer all day and it’s kind of good to get away and work with your hands and
00:10:41.790 –> 00:10:50.670
Build, you know, whether it’s, you know, trains or again my mind like flying trains, in a way, I’m not building the scenery and things around that but I’m also
00:10:52.290 –> 00:11:07.890
I get to kind of create art that way. And my art. What I do that as making videos, trying to sync my you know freestyle flying a drone up with music and not your photography type of drone where you just hover and take a picture. I’m going
00:11:08.370 –> 00:11:08.760
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Side, like I learned to be a pilot a little bit though. I hate to call myself a pilot because that really makes real pilots like
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A real pilot
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Yeah, so, and you don’t have any any problems flying over
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Can we go kindergartener schools and stuff like that.
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Yeah, like I’m usually going to office parks on the weekend and and flying through there, that the negative that is everything’s concrete around it. So if I
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Mess up I’m usually breaking something. But that’s part of re fixing everything and they’re made of carbon fiber. They’re pretty pretty strong but
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That’s awesome. I kind of come from a similar background to you where I was like kind of a webmaster built building websites from the ground up. I’ve
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Spent tons of time like because I was a designer started with the school for Ashley 3D animation.
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Realize it stunk at that I had Photoshop.
00:12:08.370 –> 00:12:24.090
And having Photoshop back then when you’re a designer and the designers that that were real designers at the time didn’t really see the web as an outlet because you know you have different sized screens different pixel with like, you know, if I wasn’t giving them the exact
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You know dimensions, how many points is this font. Like, I don’t know, it’s
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Fascinating thing you’re talking about it because I went through the whole of that process where
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Graphic designers would saying well web isn’t a real thing. It’s, it’s all over the place.
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But the disciplines that we put into the web over the years actually now match what we were doing in graphic design before the web came along.
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So, you know, we’re doing exactly the same thing. Yes. We’ve given it a different set of names for layouts, etc. But basically we’re doing the same thing.
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So I think is a really good time to go. Now go back and visit
00:13:06.810 –> 00:13:09.060
Great graphic design from the 60s and 70s.
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And see how we can implement that into websites because nobody is everybody’s using WordPress themes which some bloke in his Hungarian bedrooms designing and for $10 or whatever it
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Is you use the writer work with a list apart. And I know that agenda that ground. I used to work with Jason Santa Maria and Dan mall in the past at a different company and
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They really one thing they would teach me just the design aspect of things right. I was doing development.
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They were real designers and also did front end development. So it really taught me like I understood designed to an extent, but never went to school for design and just working with them and
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How they meticulously go through fonts and how headers look and just the usability and readability of stuff really helped me out with a lot of my just creativity in general and make
00:14:01.470 –> 00:14:03.960
Things working with brilliant people like that you’ll pick up stuff.
00:14:05.430 –> 00:14:14.820
Without without a shadow of doubt. So all that stuff will come through and you’ll, you’ll be able to take that I that for for many years I was working in marketing departments in an HSBC and I have a
00:14:15.450 –> 00:14:21.240
Huge knowledge in marketing, but I’ve never done marketing my life. But I know what I need to do to make it work for marketing.
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If no, never done. I’ve never been paid to do
00:14:25.950 –> 00:14:26.460
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You pick that stuff up.
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I guess I feel like
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A bit of a psycho in that. My hobby is running a podcast. Like, that’s what I do is I have my day job when I could be building, building drones or planes are being a master breadmaker whatever
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Guy and get some people
00:14:46.770 –> 00:14:47.820
I like mowing the yard.
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Oh man, so like I guess you you were add it as SPC, right. I feel like I’m like mismatching the
00:14:59.040 –> 00:15:00.150
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HST now you’re now. You’re confusing me.
00:15:03.270 –> 00:15:10.110
Hong Kong Shanghai Banking Corporation was the original one. But when they bought middle and bank and shifted from Hong Kong to UK
00:15:10.800 –> 00:15:14.580
For reasons that China was going to take back Hong Kong and they want to shift all their
00:15:14.940 –> 00:15:31.410
assets such as the UK UK government. So you need to change your name and not be the Hong Kong Shanghai Banking Corporation. So they just bent HSBC, the amount of people that I know they still call it ages be is untrue, even people that have been working as
00:15:33.150 –> 00:15:39.930
Agencies work of ages beats for years 22 meetings with him. It’s like he has been so you don’t really know is that, well, the
00:15:41.310 –> 00:15:52.680
But that’s not the problem. They’re not that interested in, then they’re not that well known in the in the States, as I would like to think is massive in the UK and the rest of the world but states that are there, but
00:15:53.820 –> 00:15:58.980
You like there’s a lot of lot of competition, a lot of competition, what I was gonna say
00:15:59.910 –> 00:16:16.800
With two things. How did you get there many different disciplines of getting into SEO. How did you find that you fell into more of the technical side. And then, what made you you know you were there for a long, long time.
00:16:17.250 –> 00:16:17.670
00:16:17.730 –> 00:16:19.560
He wanted want to jump out on your own.
00:16:21.090 –> 00:16:23.700
Well, frankly, I did only choice jumping on where
00:16:25.440 –> 00:16:31.530
There were some changes. But I wanted to do that for years and just didn’t have the guts today.
00:16:33.180 –> 00:16:40.890
So how I fell into it because being a webmaster in the early days, you did everything literally everything. So part of that discipline was
00:16:41.550 –> 00:16:56.670
SEO, but we didn’t know what it’s called SEO in the search engine. Let’s get some spell today and that sort of came later on. And there were a lot of other things with more important in those days like validation of code, which nobody cares anymore, but it was a big thing.
00:16:59.190 –> 00:17:00.960
As you said, the second bit is
00:17:02.160 –> 00:17:08.940
Well, the, the, the first bit was jumping in becoming a technical SEO. Like, how did you
00:17:09.150 –> 00:17:10.500
Yeah, you know, I did that.
00:17:11.610 –> 00:17:14.520
So the technical side is because I was building websites and
00:17:15.600 –> 00:17:18.630
More home than that HSBC
00:17:19.680 –> 00:17:30.330
I was building my website and other sort of small clients, etc. I got to know content management systems really well. And I was actually to the point while specifying them internally and HSBC and then
00:17:31.260 –> 00:17:42.810
Looking at what we get out of content management system. We went through a lot HSBC, most of which we never up to what we really need it, but I’m saying that and
00:17:44.490 –> 00:17:47.820
Understanding how websites work and what you need to get them to really
00:17:49.230 –> 00:17:56.370
Give the information to people when it got to the point where they said, What did you want to do. I, I sat back and thought, well, actually.
00:17:56.820 –> 00:18:06.720
What we don’t have an HSBC is an SEO team and we didn’t I was the only one at the time and I said that we should do more of this because it’s important, and that was that was back in
00:18:08.100 –> 00:18:13.500
2010, I think, and I’ve been doing SEO for years, but not as a prime discipline.
00:18:14.520 –> 00:18:17.970
Because part of wising as they let me build this team up and
00:18:19.590 –> 00:18:22.620
Yeah, HSBC is a massive brand worldwide.
00:18:24.480 –> 00:18:37.620
And we lived off that and they really didn’t take any notice of SEO at all. And I think that’s changed certainly was changing the last two years I was there and people realize that the disruptors are coming in.
00:18:38.850 –> 00:18:46.110
PayPal etc and getting banking licenses and there was potential and stuff like bitcoin and other stuff coming along, which would
00:18:46.860 –> 00:18:59.400
disrupt it and and the big players like HBC really had to change the game. So there were people behind us. And yet, we need to get some SEO into our sites, then, to make sure we keep our dominant position.
00:19:01.230 –> 00:19:09.120
And it was it was tricky. He was, it wasn’t tricky keeping the site’s ranking well that was no problem at all, because the brand was so strong.
00:19:10.350 –> 00:19:17.640
It was tricky getting stuff done. The big old corporate you can’t get anything done troubles you know
00:19:19.140 –> 00:19:19.710
Lots of that.
00:19:22.500 –> 00:19:35.100
Were some of your biggest challenges like working in the banking industry. Right. It’s a there’s I know in the States. And I’m sure everywhere in the world. It’s you’re messing with people’s money, right. So, and I know you weren’t in charge of their money, but
00:19:35.430 –> 00:19:36.690
Being in charge of the sites.
00:19:36.900 –> 00:19:41.250
I know there’s lots of loopholes and things like that that you can’t really say stuff or do stuff.
00:19:41.760 –> 00:19:44.250
Yeah, I, I understood and
00:19:45.360 –> 00:19:49.530
Black Hat stuff and what people are trying to do to get this stuff to rank.
00:19:50.880 –> 00:19:52.800
We could never do anything like that simply
00:19:54.300 –> 00:20:04.380
Well, for many reasons, the PR out of it would be terrible and either been kicked out immediately. But then we have things like the BMW.
00:20:05.640 –> 00:20:07.590
Europe been to Europe in
00:20:08.790 –> 00:20:19.590
2006 maybe a bit late in that build a set of gateway pages to always gateways to their site and got direct from Google for about six months.
00:20:20.610 –> 00:20:38.310
Go big slap. And that was a big wake up call for a lot of people in the biggest reason why a lot of companies, big companies were using agencies still and hadn’t brought things in house so we obviously we had that. And so when that happens, we were like, yeah, we’re not doing that.
00:20:39.540 –> 00:20:56.490
Because that’s a bad thing to do. And there are lots of things about banking that that people say all the bad bankers, except, sort of, there’s a lot of very, very good, honest people in banking. The fastpass drugs people I work with, not everybody, but the vast majority away with very good
00:20:57.690 –> 00:21:03.210
And morally very good right moral compass. So in that situation where, like, we’re not just want to do that sort of thing.
00:21:03.960 –> 00:21:14.700
But then people out there and we’re like, well, we can’t do this. So we had to we have to be creative and work within was terrible in the law and banking regulation.
00:21:15.420 –> 00:21:30.270
Throughout the world is it’s really tough. I would spend days with with our lawyers on calls and, you know, three, four hour meetings every day for weeks, going through stuff to launch site. It was horrible.
00:21:31.500 –> 00:21:43.110
Because the lowest really those night back in those days just didn’t know anything about the internet, I would like to do now. But back in here at all. And yet, explain everything. Now, there was this. Okay, that’s fine.
00:21:46.230 –> 00:21:49.110
I used to work a lot in the pharmaceutical industry and
00:21:50.460 –> 00:21:58.020
I remember having to print out websites and fax them to lawyers, so that they could
00:21:59.160 –> 00:22:07.740
critique it and I’m just like, here’s a web address. Hey, just go to the website, but they needed it in print, so that they can circle and right things and
00:22:08.580 –> 00:22:17.610
The couple banks that I have worked with, weren’t they weren’t so bad. I guess I didn’t do a ton. I was just really more of them wording right. I couldn’t say
00:22:18.600 –> 00:22:27.690
You know, free checking if it wasn’t totally free. And you know, I used a lot of their terminologies and yeah lawyers were involved every step of the way. When we anytime we want to update content.
00:22:29.370 –> 00:22:34.530
Was also lucky in my life that I’ve got to work with some big brands, where I didn’t have to do any of that.
00:22:35.850 –> 00:22:44.580
You know link building tactics that would get companies in trouble. It’s I see every time there’s a big update I of course everyone gets a little, you know,
00:22:45.120 –> 00:22:56.790
Anxious when it happens, but at the same time, I like I know that I’m out there spending, you know, $20,000 a month building links done it before I actually had some clients that wanted to do big things like that.
00:22:57.990 –> 00:23:05.010
In the banking industry, but it was because there was a big merger coming and they wanted to own like the term your free savings account.
00:23:05.790 –> 00:23:16.260
Great before the merger so that they could say that. So they spent gave us tons of money which was fun to go and try to do that. But we just knew it was going to be a bad day for them at the end and
00:23:16.950 –> 00:23:21.270
We didn’t know the merger was coming, they did. And that’s kind of was the deal that was going on. So,
00:23:23.130 –> 00:23:34.920
But they were also one of those companies that were part of the collapse here in the States and merged and got bailed out. So that was one of the, you know, some of the fun times that we’ve had here in the banking industry in the States.
00:23:35.160 –> 00:23:35.820
00:23:36.000 –> 00:23:40.110
You know the lawyers STILL SORRY, YOUR LAWYER still use faxes today.
00:23:42.150 –> 00:23:57.690
I don’t know. What’s the matter, but they really I think the fact that it’s really, really difficult to intercept will change your facts because it is a facsimile they still like faxes and they still live in well do it secret. Oh, sorry, don’t you say
00:23:57.750 –> 00:24:03.360
No, it’s okay. I was just gonna say it’s funny that you guys bring up kind of the legal aspect. It’s not something
00:24:03.900 –> 00:24:13.380
That people think about, Okay, think about SEO and I have been with one of my clients in legal update health for about the last month where we have
00:24:13.860 –> 00:24:25.230
A lot of content that is mission critical to doing what I need to do on the SEO side and what we need to do on the SEO side, but we’ve been in three or four weeks of
00:24:25.680 –> 00:24:42.300
Legal updates and with the client has kind of a small digital team. So, because that lawyers take priority priority that has definitely been prioritized ahead of my little meager seo, seo changes such as funny that that come comes up.
00:24:42.660 –> 00:24:51.330
And I’ve been lawyers like where we submitted a site and we have a deadline that like when I was in the pharmaceutical world that a drug was launching
00:24:51.780 –> 00:25:00.270
We need certain things done. So that like 1130 at night, the lawyer might have finally got to it and spit it out, and I would be at back at the office.
00:25:00.930 –> 00:25:04.140
Working on things that that was before kind of remote work was actually easier.
00:25:05.040 –> 00:25:16.170
But being back at the office just waiting for that facts and once it was done, we had like 35 minutes to get it done. We had like a certain window. It’s kind of like we were launching a rocket. There was a. So you have this window to get something done.
00:25:17.640 –> 00:25:27.480
So Simon before we kind of move on to the to the news house a house kind of the new business going, what are, what are some of the things you’re kind of running into there.
00:25:28.920 –> 00:25:36.630
That’s, yeah. Because we are very small. This has been a wife and she does a lot of marketing type stuff and business.
00:25:38.850 –> 00:25:48.270
Molding business center and we kind of picking up all sorts of work. So there’s me off doing International Hotel SEO and she’s talking to the florist on the radar.
00:25:49.980 –> 00:25:59.760
Organizations any other other way eccentric. It’s fascinating. And I love it because it is so so varied and I’ve got to say, working for ourselves is is great.
00:26:01.560 –> 00:26:11.070
Really we should be working 24 hours a day. So it’s like clients, but we don’t we stick our feet up. And we have a good time and we just don’t take our work because it’s there, we just
00:26:11.610 –> 00:26:26.250
If we like somebody will work with them if we don’t like that we just tell them to say thank you very much. Hey, try this person. So we don’t have a big roster clients we we do, we do pick and choose. And I’ve got to say we have in a very lucky position to be able to do that.
00:26:27.840 –> 00:26:36.810
Most people can’t but but I’m old life amounts of money over the years and it’s it’s it’s payback time and it’s
00:26:38.070 –> 00:26:40.380
It’s going well and we’re enjoying it.
00:26:41.970 –> 00:26:42.510
00:26:42.540 –> 00:26:59.460
Yeah, that’s a you know a lot of a lot of times that I’ve thought about, about the same thing, kind of going out of my own and I like you. Hip, hip, not to this point, then willing to to take the take the risk and it sounds like you may have been kind of forced into taking the risk
00:26:59.790 –> 00:27:08.670
Was but to be honest, I’ve been waiting for it for years. And because I knew that that leaving a bank. I’m going to get substantially good payoff.
00:27:09.780 –> 00:27:21.990
Which is gave me the, the, the, the fighting fun to actually set myself up and or ourselves up and go freelance and I don’t you can’t do without that you can’t just hope because you got movies and stuff to pay, which we will have
00:27:23.730 –> 00:27:25.530
It’s difficult. You’ve got to have a
00:27:28.560 –> 00:27:36.240
Treasure chest of money you save that to make sure that you’re okay. If it doesn’t come in or people don’t pay, etc. It’s it can get very difficult
00:27:37.470 –> 00:27:38.700
To the car breaks down or
00:27:39.780 –> 00:27:45.900
Playing drop something on your roof. I’m I’m under the get week flight path here. So I was worried about
00:27:47.100 –> 00:27:47.640
00:27:47.700 –> 00:27:48.570
dropping off planes.
00:27:49.950 –> 00:27:50.910
For the houses cheap.
00:27:52.890 –> 00:27:54.390
Jeff, it wasn’t any
00:27:58.740 –> 00:28:05.370
Awesome. Well, there was, it wasn’t like a huge week this week in in SEO news, but there were some cool things that were out there, one
00:28:06.600 –> 00:28:16.650
That I’m personally digging through and enjoying is the new version of Screaming Frog was released version 12 had some really good things updated into it and
00:28:18.270 –> 00:28:19.170
One of the things I
00:28:20.250 –> 00:28:25.290
Love that I struggle with, but always was trying to find like the best way to report on speed.
00:28:26.160 –> 00:28:32.790
Like, how can I get a speed report throughout the whole site. And there’s many different ways, you know, with different tools, but now Screaming Frog. Another way to add that so
00:28:33.270 –> 00:28:43.860
It looks into Lighthouse metrics and uses the the crux data to be able to get some of that UX data pulled in from Google insights. So on that one awesome thing that with it.
00:28:45.000 –> 00:28:46.500
If you had a chance to look through it at all. Simon
00:28:46.800 –> 00:28:48.570
Yeah, I think that’s absolutely fantastic.
00:28:49.710 –> 00:28:58.110
I have a little web watcher that just watches. If there’s any changes to the release page. So, and you said it was coming up before we Tweeted it
00:28:58.740 –> 00:29:07.590
And I think it pings off every two hours. So as soon as they age radio. But yeah, great and I download immediately. So yeah, Australia. Now what’s going on and
00:29:08.250 –> 00:29:16.710
A month ago, the ad is structured data testing into the tool, which was a great step. And I think they’ve taken what they’ve learned from that and said, Well,
00:29:17.250 –> 00:29:26.850
Let’s go for speed testing with with lighthouse and whilst I’ve, I’ve, I’ve run quite a few calls this week with with that and got the lighthouse.
00:29:27.360 –> 00:29:30.840
So I have no idea what it means, yet it just throws a wrench.
00:29:31.740 –> 00:29:41.700
We’re gonna go. This one’s really bad. And this one’s really good. Why, I don’t know, and it’s a case of going through and looking and seeing how it really helps. But being able to look at a whole site.
00:29:42.300 –> 00:29:56.730
That quickly and it really is fast and bring that data back from my house is fantastic, which means I don’t have to pay into Chrome Developer anymore and per page by page and bang, it’s there and you can really just dive into what’s
00:29:57.870 –> 00:29:59.850
What’s looking not how it should do.
00:30:00.900 –> 00:30:04.260
Is a really good thing. So yeah, literally before
00:30:05.970 –> 00:30:15.540
We came on air. I was doing something I was, I had a problem getting because I switched over to the database way of saving the files in there as well.
00:30:16.680 –> 00:30:25.140
Which is super because you can structure it and organize it by folder as well so you can drag and drop the stuff in there. And I thought that was like, I need to open up some old
00:30:27.240 –> 00:30:31.020
Screaming Frog databases. I’ve got me. Sorry files that I’ve got.
00:30:31.620 –> 00:30:41.160
For for sites. How do I do that because there’s no open anymore. It’s just the call button. But there’s an import feature further down in the file thing because I paying off a support, support emails.
00:30:41.580 –> 00:30:49.530
And Dan came back fairly quickly. So there’s an important thing and it works, works perfectly. And you can bring that when you when you then import your old
00:30:50.490 –> 00:30:59.250
Files. They actually, it adds it to the database and is there. That’s great. It is really, really good and I haven’t tested here, but this is an export one as well. So imagine
00:30:59.640 –> 00:31:15.480
Where stuff gets old in your database starts get rather beacon and gets two gigabyte speak and laptops screaming with desire to have a bit more space. You can probably export stuff out to an archive somewhere. He says good
00:31:15.720 –> 00:31:22.170
No, no liquor, you know, one of their competitors. Now sampled and sleep. One thing I like about light bulb.
00:31:23.340 –> 00:31:33.300
And not even like what the tool scrawls and things like that. Is that is kind of a work off that database mentality. Also, and then you can do comparisons. Oh, yeah. Last crawl versus crawl.
00:31:34.320 –> 00:31:38.730
I don’t think this version. Screaming Frog does that. But the database storage is awesome. Like, I know it’s
00:31:39.870 –> 00:31:56.640
Having the same Screaming Frog files. It’s a pain in the butt. The only good thing with that is you can share them, but the negative with that is like I’m sharing like a 20 gigabyte file we have in our office machine is dedicated for crawling 64 gigabytes of RAM and
00:31:57.690 –> 00:32:11.340
Things like that. But now it’s you know now that seems like overkill because the database storage bottle, you know, I mean, you still need RAM, they’ll run it, but it’s, you know, you don’t need 64 gigabytes of memory to just run 100,000 URL site anymore so
00:32:11.970 –> 00:32:18.240
That’s a good, good point. Because I don’t share it in my files because my wife just went know what to do with them. Yeah, this will
00:32:19.590 –> 00:32:20.010
00:32:21.930 –> 00:32:26.580
Yet she wants me to run through that and stuff and analyze it and then tell her what to tell the client.
00:32:27.210 –> 00:32:32.340
She has no idea to and I haven’t got real to share them with so I’m quite lucky that but yes and
00:32:32.970 –> 00:32:46.440
That’s an interesting point, actually, if you if you are keeping that stuff in inside your database yourself. How do you share with with colleagues, but that’s the same cycle and bust cycles brilliant and I love Sai Baba, especially the guys
00:32:48.000 –> 00:33:04.830
That run it, who invited me to the UK surge was last year, we had a very, very jolly time, so beverages, and it was. And it’s a great tool. Really, really good tool that it kind of breaks boundaries and the way the offense will come out with the
00:33:06.000 –> 00:33:09.510
Year. The graph mapping things which really useful. Everybody say
00:33:11.730 –> 00:33:13.170
00:33:13.740 –> 00:33:20.910
It’s a great tool. And I love it. Just, you know, just because of that reflect the graphing of it. They now kind of give the ratings of the different sections.
00:33:21.240 –> 00:33:27.960
Which is kind of what I usually take the report and make a reading off of that, like, of what I think about it so that they add that in there, which is great.
00:33:29.070 –> 00:33:29.370
00:33:29.520 –> 00:33:34.080
I am personally excited about the time savings.
00:33:35.310 –> 00:33:53.220
I spent in I have my own like special spreadsheet, which pulls in web page tests paid Google page speed insights GT metrics, basically all my favorite speed tools and not having to go one by one by one. I don’t know what I’m going to do with all of the extra
00:33:54.450 –> 00:33:59.130
Extra time that I’m going to have on my hands. Something else useful but um
00:33:59.250 –> 00:34:00.090
Well, analyze it.
00:34:00.810 –> 00:34:07.350
Well yeah, I don’t know if you guys find this, but I’ve been like battling for I feel like now years
00:34:08.010 –> 00:34:13.770
With respect to site speed and the battle is that everybody knows it’s important
00:34:14.100 –> 00:34:22.710
Nobody wants to do anything about it. And it literally makes me pull my hair out especially when I’ve gone to, like, huge organizations and say, Hey, guys.
00:34:23.130 –> 00:34:34.740
Improve your speed by like a second and you can make like a couple million extra dollars. No, they just laughed me out of the room. But no, no, I don’t know how you guys feel about that I
00:34:35.010 –> 00:34:45.930
Constantly had that problem and in HSBC we have everything was organized in such a way that our development teams basically were part of it and had a book and
00:34:46.710 –> 00:34:57.960
Every time I went to them and says we need this. That book was shot for the next year. So it’s so difficult to get resource to actually go and build anything we wanted a really good example of that.
00:34:58.530 –> 00:35:03.480
One of the last projects I worked on before I left, and then what’s in it for about two years was
00:35:04.200 –> 00:35:18.180
The HBC asset management set of websites. It was one website with lots of countries have sub folders within that. And then once the spit them out into sub domain so into local domains which made a lot of sense at the time.
00:35:19.830 –> 00:35:34.380
Whether it does now. And I don’t know how to take care, they’re not paying me. So we had about 32 websites and in a multitude of languages and I can’t remember what they all work together. So I remember there was probably 20 different kind of us probably slightly less than that.
00:35:35.400 –> 00:35:48.330
But we shifted over from the content management system we have a job. It was an IBM. One more comment, but it was web sphere, I think, with a vision on the back end of it or something over to cycle.
00:35:49.980 –> 00:35:59.640
And as part of that. So the key let’s let’s go a source of hreflang tool. So as we go and deploy each site, we can add all the hreflang then for each
00:36:00.780 –> 00:36:07.440
Each site because basically the content was the same one every, every site, but just in different languages for the different countries, etc. And a slight variations
00:36:08.310 –> 00:36:20.250
In content here and there and stuff and they went to six months when they come back to come do it for another year. So what we did, we went and built our own Excel macros spreadsheets and would manually.
00:36:21.330 –> 00:36:28.920
Push this stuff out and then we would actually push it up in the content management system as a text file or XML file.
00:36:29.850 –> 00:36:35.970
Via the CMS until Google where I hate ref Lang files were because they were under the law place.
00:36:36.720 –> 00:36:43.200
And you could do that. And that’s really IF YOU LOOK AT THE SIZE YOU GO WE HAVEN’T GOTTEN A traveling. Yes, we have. You just can’t see it.
00:36:43.710 –> 00:36:52.140
It’s done it. I literally and it’s still there now. So there’s been at least three and a half years and that resource still hasn’t been made available.
00:36:53.070 –> 00:36:58.020
Yeah, because I wanted all there banging the drum. Right. But that’s a really good example of of
00:36:58.860 –> 00:37:05.310
Trying to get results in any big corporation or any small corporations, to be honest, I’ve worked in other places. Since then, that’s
00:37:06.030 –> 00:37:13.290
Where getting resources just very, very difficult for SEO. It’s not seen as being the bottom line.
00:37:13.860 –> 00:37:18.840
Bringing money in. I think that’s changing. I think people are realizing a lot more SEOs are coming in the house.
00:37:19.440 –> 00:37:25.230
Of last year’s. And that’s I think that’s because companies are realizing they need to spend money on SEO.
00:37:25.860 –> 00:37:36.360
And it. I’ve seen situations where they’ve actually had dedicated Deb’s sitting with an SEO team and where that works. It works really, really well. But even in those situations.
00:37:37.230 –> 00:37:50.340
Getting resource time is is difficult because there’s there’s minds are. I know a lot of there’s no work with them. There is there elsewhere. They don’t care about SEO. It’s like a little tape. It’s like accessibility. Same thing. It’s like to do that.
00:37:51.630 –> 00:38:00.540
Yeah, implementation, it’s the biggest challenge we face. And the funny thing is like we are struggling all the time with implementation.
00:38:01.200 –> 00:38:17.220
But one thing I constantly, constantly get is, why are the results like x or what’s going on with this. Why isn’t this moving or whatever. And it’s, it’s not a valid answer to point back to, well, you didn’t implement my recommendations.
00:38:17.490 –> 00:38:18.540
Or it took six months.
00:38:18.960 –> 00:38:21.060
Or whatever. So, but
00:38:21.630 –> 00:38:29.070
Also the competition is doing the same thing at the same time. Last Google’s changing everything every single day. Several multiple times a day as well.
00:38:30.360 –> 00:38:39.300
It gets very, very difficult. And there are there are many marketing departments are still hang on rankings and listen. Everything I will rank is going up today.
00:38:39.810 –> 00:38:58.800
There was a there’s a UK company called strategic who brought out a tool last year that did hourly tracking our rankings and I was lucky to get on the beat on there and it was absolutely mad. Yeah, we do small tests about either 20 keywords something and
00:39:00.150 –> 00:39:01.740
You could see the top three
00:39:03.330 –> 00:39:12.690
Terms with were bantering a little bit, but the further you go away from the top three it was all over the place. And Google is just testing constantly
00:39:13.380 –> 00:39:25.650
Which means any ranking tool that comes back and says, Oh, you’re at this position, say it depends. When they go and test it, because it’ll averaging it they’re not testing every minute. And every day and saying this is this is roughly where you know not all
00:39:26.520 –> 00:39:27.930
When and where. Yeah.
00:39:29.160 –> 00:39:32.550
So I don’t believe rankings at all anymore, it is good that what we clients.
00:39:33.570 –> 00:39:34.380
See, number one.
00:39:35.700 –> 00:39:43.830
It is tough. I and I’m lucky that I have some clients where rankings aren’t. I mean, we like to. I like to look at them as a whole and see if things are moving but
00:39:45.030 –> 00:39:57.960
I tried to get away from like those single terms that we want to do well on. I do have one that has a very specific term and he checks it every day. And if he’s, he doesn’t need to be number one. He just needs to be in the top five. And he’s happy.
00:39:58.890 –> 00:39:59.340
00:39:59.700 –> 00:40:10.860
Yeah, and it’s because it’s a it’s a term that’s near and dear. It’s like there it’s kind of a product that they made. But other people sell it. So if he’s getting beat up by Amazon. He doesn’t care. But he’s wants to be up there.
00:40:11.490 –> 00:40:16.260
Because either way, he makes the money, but it’s just one of those ego terms like on that that they’d like to do
00:40:17.280 –> 00:40:24.270
But yeah, I try to, I try to stay away from. We run ranking reports, of course, but I think definitely like to look at them as a whole.
00:40:24.690 –> 00:40:34.440
And like, here’s a group of terms, maybe for a category. And is that category doing better or worse, but there’s so many variables like with personalization and stuff that it’s really hard to
00:40:35.070 –> 00:40:40.770
To really take take that information and say this is exactly what is happening right now. Right, so
00:40:41.430 –> 00:40:43.440
I’ve been doing a lot of local over the last year and
00:40:45.300 –> 00:40:52.740
Savor the florist shop up the radio and it’s fascinating. If you can get up into the map pack or three sometimes four
00:40:53.670 –> 00:41:10.470
You can really increase your business a lot especially local because people just don’t look be on that map pack and getting in line and working well it’s it’s a skill. It’s just little bits and pieces that help, but I have I’m frustrated one particular small company.
00:41:11.520 –> 00:41:20.760
Who I’m as frustrated me and I’m doing loads of work for free on this because I literally just want to make him. Number one, he just constantly two and three in the map pack.
00:41:21.840 –> 00:41:36.900
against somebody who is constant number one whose website is the worst websites in my life. This is in for until very recently. He’s each one said title there wasn’t even a product or anything. I was just, just like ranking.
00:41:37.920 –> 00:41:39.780
Or something like that. Yeah, it’s just so annoying.
00:41:40.830 –> 00:41:41.100
00:41:42.330 –> 00:41:49.170
It just, you know, just when you think you know everything, and there’s like a site like that cycles is working. Yeah.
00:41:49.980 –> 00:41:53.730
That’s the same with all of us as well. It’s everything’s changing so much
00:41:54.780 –> 00:42:09.450
Just trying to consume all the what’s what’s changing and looking at the SEO uses every day and trying to understand how things are changes really difficult. This day me yes yeah 10 years ago it was like SEO. Yeah, I read that once a month.
00:42:10.710 –> 00:42:16.050
And you understand where things got these days. And the only way I can keep up with it. It’s keep on Twitter.
00:42:17.250 –> 00:42:27.930
With the masses of people are see what the clever people are looking at and say, oh, read this and if it’s not for them. Right. It’s not in Twitter and somebody saying this is good. I don’t, I don’t get real.
00:42:29.070 –> 00:42:29.430
00:42:29.910 –> 00:42:40.020
I use a program or a site called nuzzle and nuzzle takes all the like takes all my tweets and all the people I follow and groups them in like oh 50 people retweeted this
00:42:40.560 –> 00:42:43.080
Must be more important than than other things and so
00:42:44.130 –> 00:42:46.740
It’s usually Barry Schwartz articles, all of them. So I can just go to his site.
00:42:48.300 –> 00:42:51.630
Freedom, because it seems like everyone retweets is right away, but I’m
00:42:52.650 –> 00:42:53.040
00:42:53.310 –> 00:42:55.350
I’m a barrier that he has no idea what he’s doing.
00:42:57.240 –> 00:43:03.210
Is pushing the right buttons right he fell on his feet. He’s very lucky man. That’s awesome. I’m
00:43:03.570 –> 00:43:10.860
Also in the tool world there is a new tool that was kind of announced called sunlight metrics and if you’ve heard about there. They’re um
00:43:12.360 –> 00:43:17.970
They’re claiming, and it’s not even out yet i i think me and Jacob puzzle both signed up for a
00:43:18.300 –> 00:43:18.900
00:43:19.200 –> 00:43:27.780
Yeah, the waitlist but it’s supposedly a log file analyzer. That doesn’t need log files, where I don’t know how they’re doing it. If it’s a piece of j is that
00:43:27.810 –> 00:43:28.470
00:43:28.830 –> 00:43:40.830
It’s a piece of JS and they’re analyzing the the bot traffic as it’s crawling your site as opposed to like having the physical log file so interesting concept.
00:43:41.100 –> 00:43:42.210
Well SoC rubbish.
00:43:43.410 –> 00:43:45.060
It very well. Very good.
00:43:45.720 –> 00:43:46.680
Sounds like it might be
00:43:46.950 –> 00:43:47.580
One of the drops
00:43:47.730 –> 00:43:48.750
While doesn’t find
00:43:49.440 –> 00:44:04.080
Somebody to come up with something no logs are incredibly important and I was going to bang on about this. It’s really difficult hold a logs, but they’re so important to understand what traffic is coming to your site that I’ve recently switched my personal site from craft Kirby.
00:44:05.910 –> 00:44:12.300
For various reasons, but one tool. I’ve used in both his retort craft plugin burrito was brilliant.
00:44:14.760 –> 00:44:24.090
And fortunately for me. There’s a retort plugin for Kirby as well. And what that does is allows it basically maps everything that’s been asked for on the site and
00:44:24.780 –> 00:44:35.790
Gives you a failure list and then you can then go map it to some way you want to see redirects in but you’re going to see without looking at the logs all the URLs have been asset failing.
00:44:36.360 –> 00:44:46.500
And the problem with if you’re not looking at the logs and stuff. He really, you’re not going to get all that information and the amount of
00:44:47.010 –> 00:45:02.130
WordPress URLs that have been hit on my site, which has never had WordPress on it isn’t credible. So there’s obviously people in the various places in the world, though just pounding everything in the world and see where the vulnerabilities are so they can check their paid links and
00:45:03.300 –> 00:45:11.460
I’m assuming that paid links because I didn’t do any of that. So yeah, it was. It’s always interesting where you know insights that I have this
00:45:11.970 –> 00:45:19.050
How are people trying to get to these pages. And where’s that coming from like this page never existed. Ever. And there’s just going to be a ton of
00:45:19.680 –> 00:45:26.010
Bot machines out there that are just hitting that type of stuff trying to find vulnerabilities. I guess the interesting world that
00:45:26.940 –> 00:45:37.230
I want to meet somebody who does it just to to talk to them and just understand why. And if it is just to put, you know, Viagra ads on my page then because I’ve had like a WordPress site taken over and
00:45:37.830 –> 00:45:43.560
I found out that in my old hometown I ranked number one for like Viagra and you’re the name of the town.
00:45:44.790 –> 00:45:55.980
Was like, oh, cuz somebody who was doing some research, let me know. And I’m like, oh, that was one of those someone you know took my system over and only gave it to Google bought. I never even noticed it.
00:45:56.910 –> 00:46:09.150
So it was a very interesting time and then you know it was weird, trying to get it out of the site because they somehow really got into the core and I couldn’t like how to delete everything and start again that’s
00:46:09.180 –> 00:46:21.600
One of the reasons I don’t use WordPress. It’s a fantastic tool. And yes, I do SEO for a list apart and let’s just shift on WordPress. Earlier this year, but it’s the VIP WordPress is pretty good stuff.
00:46:22.920 –> 00:46:32.370
But most WordPress setups aren’t looking at all, every day, making sure that everything’s okay you see things can happen like that people can have vulnerabilities and
00:46:32.880 –> 00:46:45.900
With those plugins. It’s fantastic. You like oh I could do this, I can, I can have a table of contents, bang. There you go. Just press a button. I’ll take a box, you get table contents and but you don’t know underneath there is somebody going to backdoor in which is why
00:46:46.950 –> 00:46:52.890
I have been using content management systems over the years, which I tend to focus on ones, which
00:46:53.460 –> 00:47:09.360
Really do separate the data away from the presentation layer. So I’m talking here expression engine. I use expression engine for years and years. I do use it for some clients. Still, and then adopt perch for small sites. Again, same thing and craft because craft came out of expression engine.
00:47:10.170 –> 00:47:19.230
That the guys who developed that were expression Engine developers and plug in developers and they didn’t like the way, especially if you’re going to hit the
00:47:19.230 –> 00:47:29.130
Wrong one but craft is very, very devery so very composer lead, etc. Yeah, my cup of tea, which is why I switched my slavish to Kirby.
00:47:31.350 –> 00:47:41.760
I mean that split between your data and your, your presentation layer really does separate to and you don’t get that in WordPress and now because WordPress has got Guttenberg as well, which still blocks and everything.
00:47:42.210 –> 00:47:51.240
All the systems we had that for years. And in fact, you can make up your own templates in the background in the back end. Rather, and I do that all the time for our clients or small clients.
00:47:51.990 –> 00:48:00.930
Yeah, we’re building templates them to change the page, then get in. Do it most of the time they they pay us today. So I just make it easier for my wife to
00:48:02.970 –> 00:48:21.060
But that sort of stuff is important to to put together and for me is if you know what you put together. You know what shouldn’t be there. And that’s why people get in with WordPress and change that because people are checking up a WordPress site. Don’t know what’s actually in there. Yeah.
00:48:21.660 –> 00:48:27.540
That’s it’s just so easy. Yeah, I can push a button with my host of a new setup and minutes. Yeah.
00:48:28.110 –> 00:48:35.760
That’s basically what we did with with the HQ podcast website which is WordPress, which will probably get hacked, at some point, but
00:48:37.980 –> 00:48:38.190
00:48:39.810 –> 00:48:46.500
So you y’all mentioned a lot of platforms. So I feel like that is a good segue.
00:48:47.700 –> 00:48:48.600
00:48:50.400 –> 00:48:53.250
What do you guys think of when I say re platforming
00:48:54.660 –> 00:48:57.630
You tell you WordPress contents ticket or something else is that
00:48:59.220 –> 00:49:13.560
I usually think ominous ominous use it usually comes to mind like especially if you’re trying to do re platforming and or redesign or migration, it basically any any moving or changing of have a website.
00:49:14.670 –> 00:49:25.740
Pretty, pretty ominous ominous and pretty, pretty daunting is what typically comes to mind when I hear brands mentioned that they’re they’re thinking about it. I don’t know how you guys feel
00:49:27.390 –> 00:49:28.110
Well for me.
00:49:29.550 –> 00:49:33.090
It’s fantastic. Doing a migration where someone is saying on the same platform.
00:49:35.580 –> 00:49:40.320
And they just switching a few bits and pieces over but what often happens is
00:49:41.640 –> 00:49:53.490
You will get somebody going well, we need to go. Stick it on this new platform because that’s now the group standard or the company standard and we need to ship them to that. Let’s use this as an opportunity to redesign it way.
00:49:54.030 –> 00:50:02.430
And then second thing is, while we’re redesigning it will change the content as well and as an SEO you sitting there going oh my god, everything’s changing
00:50:03.150 –> 00:50:19.440
It can be managed. But if you’re not in there at the beginning of the process, telling them what they need to really think about etc. If you’re brought in two weeks before they launch or worse. Two weeks after they launched, you’ve got one hell of a task on your hands, you really
00:50:20.280 –> 00:50:27.030
Have to be a lot of time. So this it all. It was launched and our traffic center plummeted. It’s like, well, I wonder why.
00:50:27.960 –> 00:50:36.030
And a very good example of that. And, and I’m not going to drop anybody’s names into this. But after I stopped running hp.com
00:50:36.600 –> 00:50:46.320
And it was passed out to other teams to burn within the year I was entered to run it, they did do exactly that. They did a platform change and its design change. And I said,
00:50:46.680 –> 00:51:01.620
You need to redirect all the URLs and as well as 12 1400 URLs inside the inside to redirect the top 200 only and for the next two years, the traffic and all those pieces.com plummeted to a third of what it was when I was running it.
00:51:03.060 –> 00:51:05.640
And never regained anything like it was before.
00:51:07.170 –> 00:51:11.550
But they’re going to get that sail off me and I was like, Yeah, I read it much better.
00:51:12.300 –> 00:51:26.130
Well, the thing about that is like when that happens, especially for companies that depend on that traffic or for business that that has a real world implication like probably cost. Some people their, their jobs in
00:51:27.180 –> 00:51:32.520
And I, and I always say, like, at the outset of any project like this. Like, look.
00:51:33.030 –> 00:51:41.100
Business owner brand you think of me as somebody that’s going to grow your web your, your, your traffic right that’s what people think of SEOs well
00:51:41.700 –> 00:51:52.350
You need to erase that for right now when we go through this project. My goal is to protect your traffic and help you not drop off a cliff flat, the
00:51:52.620 –> 00:51:59.730
Client once said this to me, and it’s beautiful. Because I because I’ve used it over and over again. Flat is the new up
00:52:00.210 –> 00:52:11.310
Right. So when you’re when you’re going through a major change like this like just maintaining stability is a really, really good thing. Now hopefully you’re doing this re platform and redesign.
00:52:11.910 –> 00:52:23.460
To ultimately allow yourself to grow long term and that certainly would be the goal for the SEO people too, but simply getting through and making sure that you don’t shoot yourself in the foot or feet.
00:52:24.990 –> 00:52:26.760
Is is pretty much the goal.
00:52:28.290 –> 00:52:30.120
Yeah, I mean, there was a time where
00:52:31.440 –> 00:52:39.480
You know, we would tell clients. Hey, we’re going to see a 30 to 50% decrease for three months and and things like that and
00:52:40.830 –> 00:52:47.520
You know Google’s gotten a lot better at that. If you hand them the right you know things right. So we’re not changing every bit of content and
00:52:48.030 –> 00:52:58.980
We’re just updating our content, you know, management system, you know, there. Yeah, we can actually launch and B flat, you know, and that’s great because we’re not losing that we’re having to wait three months for anything.
00:53:00.090 –> 00:53:00.390
00:53:01.530 –> 00:53:08.760
It all depends on on what’s going on. Even if we do change content. It’s all depends on the content we had before we can always change it for the better.
00:53:09.210 –> 00:53:18.600
But changing everything at once, can be, you know, a shock to the system. And that’s one of the things that you know as a technical SEO trying to
00:53:19.920 –> 00:53:29.670
You know, not have that bigger shock. I mean, I think most of my re platforms end up like we’re just going to upgrade our platform. And then what’s the developers go in there. They’re like,
00:53:30.120 –> 00:53:39.120
You know, our templates don’t work with this. And next thing they’re doing is a redesign. And then, of course, while they’re redesigning like let’s just change the wording of the site and it’s like
00:53:40.260 –> 00:53:56.550
So luckily I’ll if I get in there. You know when it’s all happening, you’re six months ahead of time or whenever that’s, that’s great, but far too many times I get called in six months after when traffic is down 50% and they were like, what happened so
00:53:57.030 –> 00:54:04.650
Aside from the, the obvious need for, like, hey, bring the SEOs in early on, so that we can be side by side.
00:54:05.490 –> 00:54:18.720
If, if you’re a brand listening to this podcast right now. Or if you’re somebody that works for a brand or whatever. What advice would you give to that person. And what are like the biggest things that you’ve seen go wrong. Like, top of the list.
00:54:19.950 –> 00:54:20.460
00:54:21.660 –> 00:54:21.930
00:54:23.040 –> 00:54:35.910
Besides, but I’m going to go back to and say, getting yourself into those initial meetings is incredibly important and actually quite hard because normally you won’t know that happening. Somebody just gone off and said, I have this idea in this
00:54:38.070 –> 00:54:53.250
But soon as you find out, get in there and start banging the table and say we need to include me on my team. Some of my team on this, you need to think about these things. And I think that’s a really a case of you can preempt that by saying well notes to people saying
00:54:54.570 –> 00:55:10.170
Well, you’ve done the migration that’s worked really well. And this is, this is why it’s worth to what we need to think about. We do that migration and one of my top tips on that is I always map all the URLs in a site so absolutely everything
00:55:12.060 –> 00:55:28.590
00:55:30.960 –> 00:55:42.510
cause somebody to make the role investment and they take it to court, which is happens. And that was very funny. And I wasn’t involved with that. But I was picked up pieces but yeah
00:55:44.880 –> 00:55:52.440
It’s difficult, but you really, really do need to map the whole lot out and if you’ve got those maps, you’re doing on a regular basis, anyway.
00:55:53.610 –> 00:56:10.020
Because sometimes we don’t get the chance to understand what your contents been putting aside on a regular basis. Usually it’s okay because it’s just the blogging cetera but I would, if you’re in house I would be certainly suggesting mapping your site on a monthly basis.
00:56:11.910 –> 00:56:16.950
Or even a weekly one Screaming Frog it or site, ball, ball D crawl or whatever.
00:56:18.090 –> 00:56:27.510
Just so you’ve got an indication of what you’re actually dealing with. So when those things happen when people start doing that and, you know, at least you’ve got a starting point.
00:56:30.030 –> 00:56:31.380
Jeff, what about what about you, man.
00:56:32.460 –> 00:56:35.970
Yeah, no, I mean it’s with any of it. I think it’s
00:56:37.650 –> 00:56:40.320
Can will keep saying get in there early as much as you can, but
00:56:41.520 –> 00:56:47.700
Really want to, you know, the mapping aspect is definitely something I want to do. I also like I like to get in.
00:56:48.300 –> 00:56:52.530
When we’re in early looking at wire frames. Right. And because number one thing that I’m always
00:56:53.100 –> 00:56:59.550
I’m not all about SEO or content for content sake on pages, but working a lot of the e commerce world.
00:57:00.000 –> 00:57:06.330
I’ll just get in these wire frames and I’m like, where’s the content. Go and it’s like, whether it’s the title or the header.
00:57:06.720 –> 00:57:11.040
Like, what were some content go like we’re, how are we engaging with our customers and where are we putting that
00:57:11.460 –> 00:57:20.220
You know, Google needs something to read. Again, I don’t need a Wikipedia article, but we need a spot to least have content and as a designer I know designers love
00:57:21.180 –> 00:57:28.980
Imagery and imagery is great. It makes you know, get your feelings, but if there’s no words that go on that the the battle. We always have is that people don’t read
00:57:29.460 –> 00:57:36.120
The web pages anymore. So we don’t want to have small bits of content, which is all great like we just need to have those small bits of content and
00:57:36.510 –> 00:57:43.680
We can have multiple small bits of content to be able to get a message across. There are people who do like to read. And Google is one of them, right. They’re the
00:57:44.340 –> 00:57:50.700
Largest blind user on the internet so they can’t really see the pictures. So we need to at least explain what’s going on in the page.
00:57:52.230 –> 00:57:58.860
And if we are doing a migration and we have great content already and we’re ranking like knowing this is where rankings do coming into play.
00:57:59.190 –> 00:58:06.330
If we know we’re ranking well for certain pages and certain keywords like we want to make sure that like I prioritize those lists of pages so
00:58:06.840 –> 00:58:12.600
I want to map everything out. But I also want to make sure that, hey, these five categories are 80% of our traffic.
00:58:13.200 –> 00:58:20.280
Let’s not rock the boat as much on those, if we can, and maybe pull that same content and make I’m somebody who likes to have like
00:58:20.700 –> 00:58:30.900
Let’s keep the same title tag for now. That’s something we can change in the future. We’re gonna change content on the page. Let’s keep the same title tag or something like that. So that way, it’s easier for Google. The mapping thing there.
00:58:32.100 –> 00:58:34.500
But from that I, you know, it’s
00:58:35.550 –> 00:58:39.390
I feel like even if we have everything down the way wanted to go. It’s like
00:58:39.900 –> 00:58:47.970
There could always be that one thing i mean i run Screaming Frog through it a new site a million times run deep crawl through QA servers and like that, but
00:58:48.720 –> 00:59:02.850
Soon as we launch, it’s one of those where it’s just being. This is where our really rankings, maybe not, but I do look at things like on a daily basis because I want to make sure if I see anything start going down that we can address it right away so
00:59:03.300 –> 00:59:16.350
So I’ll see what you guys are saying, and I’ll raise you one. So obviously the content is very important in still, you have to have a content. If you want to rank for a specific thing.
00:59:16.860 –> 00:59:27.000
Redirects probably the most important. But one thing I just went through with a major, major retailer is they have had a bunch of content.
00:59:27.660 –> 00:59:38.190
And they, we had a redirect strategy in place. They wanted to rely less on one to ones because the system just didn’t support more than a certain amount and more on like rejects, which was fine.
00:59:38.760 –> 00:59:48.030
We can work around that. But they they did use it as a bit of an excuse to make the decision not to carry all the content over
00:59:48.420 –> 00:59:55.050
Content that for us was critical, and was within kind of that upper crust of pages driving
00:59:55.380 –> 01:00:05.790
Traffic in the decision making, was a little bit arbitrary because sometimes decision making comes from much higher above and sometimes comes without data informing
01:00:06.450 –> 01:00:17.250
Those decisions and then another function, which I did not expect with such a large organization was that the the team of people moving the content from old platform to new platform.
01:00:17.670 –> 01:00:28.710
Didn’t have the capacity to move at all. So, like, no matter how like if they were working every hour of every day, just on moving content they didn’t have the capacity to do it because they just didn’t have enough people
01:00:29.190 –> 01:00:42.810
So we had to go get into an exercise where we really had to help them prioritize which content got moved over and was present at launch, which meant that a certain portion
01:00:43.260 –> 01:00:53.190
Of content there was critical to performance, no matter what we did. We did every other thing right was not going to get moved over and that was a huge problem. Now luckily we
01:00:53.700 –> 01:01:04.980
solved it quickly after lunch, but we were like honestly we were we were really worried that like, hey, like you’re not moving over 30 or 40% of your content, like that’s going to be a problem.
01:01:05.700 –> 01:01:21.960
So we were definitely sounding sounding the alarm bells on on that one. And that’s just not something people talk about a lot is the actual transition and migration of the actual content they talked mostly about redirection but sometimes not all the content makes it over, which is crazy.
01:01:23.070 –> 01:01:24.210
It is crazy and
01:01:26.490 –> 01:01:34.380
Have you either have you read my article on migration tracking in Google Data studio. So my sites island called.com
01:01:35.550 –> 01:01:42.000
It’s on page article linked and that’s a way of tracking the tracking before and afters and making sure you don’t get the
01:01:42.750 –> 01:01:53.220
Web because track that trope or not or not and see what’s going on. But what I’m going to come into here is that sometimes it doesn’t matter if it does drop because if you
01:01:53.580 –> 01:02:13.020
redesign your site, you might be targeting it at a better audience and you have before. And I have an example with HSBC we have done this with hp.com is a global website and the majority of the traffic was from the US. And there was a separate us site where they could go into the banking.
01:02:14.460 –> 01:02:23.430
We got charged cross charged internally for searches, because the search was done on service CPUs run I regret, et cetera.
01:02:23.790 –> 01:02:31.380
So up and it was costing us quite a lot. So we said, Okay, how can we reduce the amount of searches that people doing and we looked at and said, Well,
01:02:31.710 –> 01:02:40.530
Majority searches are from people from the US looking for Internet banking. So I designed the stack a great big red button on the top right hand corner said login
01:02:41.880 –> 01:02:47.430
And it killed the amount of money we had a panel searches, because everybody coming. Yes, well that’s it bought off they went
01:02:49.950 –> 01:02:53.250
And if you understand what your audiences and then he just do something like that.
01:02:54.360 –> 01:03:01.440
It doesn’t matter that we had fundamentally a lot less page views because we were actually putting the audience, whether it needs to go.
01:03:02.250 –> 01:03:12.600
And reducing our costs. So for us it’s having those KPIs is far more important and that’s what marketing deal with anyway. A lot of SEOs need to get out of the
01:03:13.410 –> 01:03:20.340
The migration thing where you’re seeing and making sure it come back when it most the time that we do want that, and it should be like that. But there are occasions where
01:03:21.060 –> 01:03:29.520
As long as what you’re seeing from the bottom line and profits etc is continuing to rise or it needs to be. It’s okay.
01:03:30.930 –> 01:03:33.000
And maybe with the HBC site that we only
01:03:34.680 –> 01:03:36.990
Only redirected to hundreds URLs. So, so
01:03:38.550 –> 01:03:45.090
Actually what happened there was that a lot of the two hundreds didn’t cope and it was we had the right traffic.
01:03:46.380 –> 01:03:59.730
Yeah okay the traffic drops a lot, but actually was the right traffic that was still coming in. It was a journalist and investors and and people want to know the information. It wasn’t people trying to log on to their bank systems, etc. So
01:04:00.600 –> 01:04:02.190
You brought up a good, a good point.
01:04:03.240 –> 01:04:14.400
In terms of looking at some of those top line metrics and I, I know I’ve run into situations where like when you’re dealing with leadership or C, C suite, folks.
01:04:15.210 –> 01:04:33.570
They judge a sometimes it’s ill advised, but they judge the entire programs performance on those top line metrics visits, not necessarily the convergence in the actual bottom line, how do you, how do you handle that when that happens.
01:04:34.200 –> 01:04:37.710
When you have a situation like you had where you you did it on purpose.
01:04:38.370 –> 01:04:41.100
Yeah, well, we’re telling them. They’re idiots and they should be looking at this
01:04:41.730 –> 01:04:44.190
And that’s why I’m now freelance right
01:04:45.870 –> 01:04:51.870
The really when it comes to see Twitter, etc. You need to start building up dashboards that really just delivered to them.
01:04:52.620 –> 01:05:00.060
What they need to know now get into detail. It’s when you get the teams that are working for the C suite that you need to get more in more detail and the people
01:05:00.600 –> 01:05:10.200
Working for them even more details. So it’s really making sure that your analytics and your data is aimed at the right audience what you want to see.
01:05:10.560 –> 01:05:19.080
And with something like a C suite. If you, if they come in and look at the graphing down we’re going looks terrible. The grass cutting down so well, actually, this is the bounce rate.
01:05:20.640 –> 01:05:26.730
As a really bad example. This is a good thing. So it’s the way you present that information and you make sure when you go into
01:05:27.120 –> 01:05:34.290
A meeting with the C suite that you know exactly what is going to happen, you’ll know exactly what you’re going to tell them exactly what they’re expecting to see
01:05:35.460 –> 01:05:41.580
And you do that by making sure you have meetings beforehand with the people that work for them, etc. And and
01:05:42.960 –> 01:05:45.030
And make sure everything’s smooth as a really
01:05:47.010 –> 01:05:52.740
Great advice sage advice, though. So Simon, where can people find you at
01:05:53.610 –> 01:05:57.660
Simon cox.com, of course, we all own our own domain names. Don’t worry.
01:05:58.530 –> 01:06:00.450
I, I certainly do. Jeff.
01:06:00.600 –> 01:06:02.010
I do mine. Yeah, yeah.
01:06:03.330 –> 01:06:10.260
We all, we were not idiots in somebody else get the domain name. Wait, actually, I did that.
01:06:10.800 –> 01:06:12.870
I do on my own, my own domain name.
01:06:14.100 –> 01:06:17.040
Jacob says, But I, I’m the one that got it.
01:06:17.340 –> 01:06:22.530
There was a time I let mine laps and that’s right after the value of people
01:06:23.520 –> 01:06:27.480
took everything and I was just like, I took the site down and then by accident. I let it lapse and
01:06:27.840 –> 01:06:30.480
had sold by my domain name and try to sell it back to me.
01:06:31.980 –> 01:06:35.550
But that lasted about a year and then they just let it go. And then I just picked it up again. But
01:06:36.420 –> 01:06:36.990
It was interesting.
01:06:37.380 –> 01:06:38.730
You can also find me on Twitter.
01:06:38.940 –> 01:06:39.510
01:06:39.600 –> 01:06:48.150
That’s Simon Cox for those first in there. Thank you very much and you will find me a lot during the week doing Twitter chats for SEM rush
01:06:48.570 –> 01:07:03.600
SEO chat on Thursdays and a few others as well econ chat on Mondays UK time midday, which is before your app, but it’s very good. Very common stuff as well. So yeah, I’m mainly on Twitter I dumped Facebook and Instagram. Last year he before he even
01:07:04.740 –> 01:07:17.670
got fed up with it. I might have to dive back in for for work purposes, but from a personal point of view, I don’t do those anymore. But yeah, anything else as it is, I think, for my sis heroes. Yeah, yeah, it’s
01:07:17.700 –> 01:07:31.260
It’s a, it’s huge. What is it, tick, tick tock, and Instagram. Maybe, maybe good with with those young guns but Twitter’s still, still the main place for for SEO chats, at least as far as I’m concerned. Yeah.
01:07:32.160 –> 01:07:38.670
Well, well, thank you so much for for taking taking time and joining us and being candid. We really appreciate it.
01:07:39.240 –> 01:07:41.700
It’s wonderful. I’m really glad I won’t be back next week.
01:07:44.640 –> 01:07:46.110
Yes, yes, we
01:07:46.740 –> 01:07:47.730
Were moving on.
01:07:48.210 –> 01:07:50.790
That 20 minutes written seemed to go a long, long way.
01:07:50.880 –> 01:07:51.630
01:07:52.620 –> 01:07:54.030
It’s been really enjoyable. Thanks, guys.
01:07:55.620 –> 01:07:56.670
Thank you. Thank you.Post Views: 1,463
By Jacob Stoops — 6 months ago
We have an amazing episode in store for you today as we have not one, but two guests!
We had such a free-flowing conversation that we ditched the traditional format (as you will soon find out) and we covered a ton of topics including:
- Ashley and Jamie’s backgrounds and career progressions into SEO
- Their amazing friendship
- Why they love technical SEO
- Dealing with impostor syndrome and self doubt
- Public speaking and writing
- The conference circuit
And so much more.
00:00:01.380 –> 00:00:21.510
Jacob Stoops: Alright. Hey everybody this is Jacob Stoops we are back for another episode of the page to podcast and today we have a very, very special episode where we have not one, but two guests and I will let you know who those guests are in a moment. But first, I’ve got to say hi to Jeff.
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Jeff Louella: Hello everybody.
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Jacob Stoops: And everything. Make sure we don’t skip Jeff.
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Jacob Stoops: And then guests. Number one is going to be Miss Jamie Alberico. Jamie, how’s it going
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Jamie Alberico: I’m so sad to be that guy. First thing in the podcast, it’s out there we go.
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Jacob Stoops: You. I am
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Jacob Stoops: I gave you the Midwest pronunciation with the Bad accent. So I am
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Jamie Alberico: Okay.
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Jamie Alberico: It means else King
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Jacob Stoops: What, no.
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Jamie Alberico: Alberico means elf King, Jamie means usurper.
00:01:02.430 –> 00:01:02.760
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Jacob Stoops: Well, I would say, I was gonna say Game of Thrones. Because of you, soccer, but elf is more Lord of the Rings, so
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Ashley Berman Hale: Or D, amp D do it on
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Jacob Stoops: there or there you go that’s that’s probably a better a better reference, but I actually don’t play d&d so the other person speaking, surprise surprise is Miss Ashley Berman Hale. Hi. How’s it going, Ashley.
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Jamie Alberico: Good. I couldn’t keep
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Ashley Berman Hale: My mouth shut, until you
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Jacob Stoops: Enjoy your now.
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Jacob Stoops: Did I pronounce your name right.
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Ashley Berman Hale: No.
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Ashley Berman Hale: Yeah.
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Ashley Berman Hale: Thank you very much.
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Jacob Stoops: Yeah, there’s nothing like face palming the the intros and messing up somebody’s name immediately. So
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Jacob Stoops: Can wish I was the
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Jacob Stoops: Was the first time I’ve done that. But it’s but it’s not you think I’d learned
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Jacob Stoops: Cool. So thank you everybody for being here. I know in Jamie’s case she’s kind of out on the West Coast. So it’s a very early morning so
00:02:02.040 –> 00:02:10.560
Jacob Stoops: Extra Special that she has decided to join us. I did want to make a few remarks and tell a quick story before we kind of dive in.
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Jacob Stoops: The one, one thing is I wanted to pay a bit of tribute my wife’s Grandpa. We just came from his funeral. This weekend and today actually would be his 100th birthday.
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Jacob Stoops: So he decided to to not wait we had planned a surprise birthday party for him on this this past Saturday, and we were, we had had hired a an old
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Jacob Stoops: Style crooner we had had because he’s a Italian we had had a nice Catholic
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Jacob Stoops: BLEEP something sent from the actual Pope in Rome, we had had the governor of Kentucky, the President of the Cincinnati Reds all kinds of people.
00:03:01.680 –> 00:03:06.540
Jacob Stoops: provided some really special things for him to honor his 100th birthday.
00:03:07.020 –> 00:03:18.120
Jacob Stoops: Unfortunately, about three weeks ago he passed away and he pulled one over on us. So instead of going to a surprise 100th birthday party. We went to his funeral this weekend.
00:03:18.390 –> 00:03:37.500
Jacob Stoops: But today, would have been his actual 100th birthday. So what I can only hope is that he, his wife preceded him by about five years is that she called him up to spend his hundredth birthday with her. So Hank Picciano if you can somehow, hear me, we love you and we miss you already
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Jacob Stoops: So now, now that I’m
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Jacob Stoops: A little sad. Sorry, I’m trying goes, it’s still a little Ross of trying to do. I’m trying to hold it back here, but
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Jacob Stoops: Wanted to tell the story of how we were able to book both Jamie and Ashley at the same time and
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Jacob Stoops: I hope that it didn’t come across super creepy. But basically, when we were thinking about Season two. And we were trying to figure out, okay,
00:04:08.400 –> 00:04:23.670
Jacob Stoops: Here’s everybody that we’ve already talked to, and here are the people and it’s a large group of people. You guys are extra, extra special. Obviously, but it’s a large group of people, because there are just so many fantastic SEOs in the in the space and honestly
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Jacob Stoops: We’re going to try to interview every single one of them, because there are so many, but it could take years.
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Jacob Stoops: Which is a good thing. Since we have a podcast but basically we when we had thought about who we want on Ashley and Jamie were kind of close to the top of the list.
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Jacob Stoops: And so we had started, we had started reaching out to people and especially in cases where you don’t directly know each other’s but you are kind of tangentially connected
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Jacob Stoops: As we were in a, in a few cases, you just kind of go through the the different channels. The, the email.
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Jacob Stoops: We use you use whatever’s available to us. So Jeff was connected to Ashley through a text Slack channel. I was connected to to Jamie through Twitter.
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Jacob Stoops: And then we had found somehow emails. I think we pulled them from Jamie, I think I called your email from your website.
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Jacob Stoops: I think it’s not not a robot, which I want to ask about that. And then I somehow we found Ashley’s here. I don’t know. But anyway, so we’re reaching out and we’re in the process. And it’s occurring on the same day and
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Jacob Stoops: We came to found out to find out that not only were we both reaching out to you guys. At the same time, you are literally sitting in the same room while we’re trying to schedule this so
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Jacob Stoops: I’m sure that especially because you didn’t know us directly. It was like these creepy guys trying to schedule us for a pot.
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Jacob Stoops: Yes.
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Jamie Alberico: Actually these guys want to schedule a murder. What are you doing,
00:06:00.420 –> 00:06:00.780
00:06:03.330 –> 00:06:03.960
Ashley Berman Hale: Numbers.
00:06:06.750 –> 00:06:07.140
Jacob Stoops: Vary
00:06:08.580 –> 00:06:09.060
Jacob Stoops: But you guys
00:06:09.210 –> 00:06:09.870
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Jamie Alberico: Ashley had just ordered some some birthday brunch for me. And we were at my kitchen table and drain eggs Benedict and something to listen to a local bit around here. And yeah, we both got the same message like hey, she just got an invitation for pitch to
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Jamie Alberico: The oh
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Jeff Louella: Yes, funny.
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Jacob Stoops: Well luckily it all. It all worked out. You guys are a good sports and we appreciate you all coming on. So,
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Jacob Stoops: As as everybody who listens to this podcast knows the hallmark is origin stories backgrounds and what it’s like to be to be an SEO and since we have two
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Jacob Stoops: Guests on this podcast, we’re going to be doing two interviews and depending on timing will probably skip, skip the news. Maybe we’ll
00:07:04.350 –> 00:07:22.560
Jacob Stoops: We were going to maybe talk about tech SEO boost, but I think we can skip that for now. But we’re going to be doing to background story interviews and then later on a deep dive into just general technical SEO. So who wants to go first. Who would like to step up to the plate.
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Jamie Alberico: Oh you have see
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Jacob Stoops: All right, Jamie. Since it’s six in the morning or seven in the morning there and you’re
00:07:35.700 –> 00:07:37.140
Jacob Stoops: Fresh on game.
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Jamie Alberico: Yeah, yeah, I was bitten by a radioactive search engine.
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Jamie Alberico: My Uncle Ben and now I’m here.
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Now you’re here.
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Jacob Stoops: Miss Peter Parker Pedro Parker. Oh.
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Ashley Berman Hale: What was I here, for I got frustrated with other jobs and I like to tinker. All right. Um, I mean we can tell the long story if you want actual details. Is that what this podcast is about
00:08:05.550 –> 00:08:08.640
Jacob Stoops: Right, exactly. I was gonna say well podcast is over a
00:08:10.110 –> 00:08:11.940
Jamie Alberico: Couple of little one liners are like
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Jamie Alberico: cash the check.
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Ashley Berman Hale: I think that was Jamie’s really good job of loving it back to me because
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Ashley Berman Hale: There for me to call not it. So I will get started.
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Ashley Berman Hale: I have a degree in art history which is fantastically useless in the traditional sense.
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Ashley Berman Hale: But I, I love it. Critical thinking is something that is a little bit tough to teach. If you don’t have it. So thank you, college for giving me that
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Ashley Berman Hale: And the first non waitress job I took or non dish dish washing and a bar or non making coffee was a sit down job at a small startup.
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Ashley Berman Hale: Where I had to answer, answer emails for people who are too busy to answer their own emails and pretend to do that. So that was how I got started made friends with the CFO did some audience because I’m picky as hell.
00:09:02.850 –> 00:09:19.980
Ashley Berman Hale: And knew that there was money missing saved him a bunch of money. They got bought out by Overstock and so we got tossed in I got brought down to the exact office there to help out and had someone say, here’s a giant fucking spreadsheet. This is pay per click. Can you figure it out.
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Ashley Berman Hale: And that was tough. And I said, I don’t like this. And I like cool. How about XML sitemap, have you heard of those
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Ashley Berman Hale: So the way that I got started as just trying to figure out how to do that for a big site with lots of inventory. I went and asked questions in a forum, I believe so strongly and
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Ashley Berman Hale: Sharing public information and helping each other. So while I was asking and waiting for an answer. I decided to answer some other questions and got stuck here.
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Ashley Berman Hale: God there’s ultimate nerd forum environments for me to learn in and for me to be moderately accepted by and then I kind of hopped around a bit and found myself very comfortably nestled in the technical SEO spot for a software company.
00:10:00.690 –> 00:10:00.960
00:10:02.640 –> 00:10:03.210
Ashley Berman Hale: High five.
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Ashley Berman Hale: High five. That’s, I mean, I’m still a really good. Well, no, I’m not. I’m still a really good dishwasher and a moderately okay waitress. So I’ve got backup plans.
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Jamie Alberico: How many friends today. Gary Owens now.
00:10:17.070 –> 00:10:17.820
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Ashley Berman Hale: My, my arms.
00:10:21.690 –> 00:10:23.370
Ashley Berman Hale: Around children. So, you know,
00:10:25.170 –> 00:10:26.640
Jamie Alberico: fallback plan is ready.
00:10:28.740 –> 00:10:40.350
Jeff Louella: Yeah. During the dark during the.com bust. I went to bartending school because I figured the internet was going to go away. And I was like, you know, one thing people like to do when times are bad is drink so
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Ashley Berman Hale: I believe it. My family owned a bar and like the Dyess state in the tree. So my family were bar owners in Utah, and actually under brewery in Montana and they always did. Okay. Because whenever there is, you know, a lot of money or religious oppression beer helps. Yeah.
00:10:59.100 –> 00:11:03.120
Jamie Alberico: And actually makes really good homemade Kula and it’s almost Christmas Ashley.
00:11:03.240 –> 00:11:04.260
Jamie Alberico: I know well
00:11:04.350 –> 00:11:08.940
Ashley Berman Hale: I will bring you a batch. I’m making a local New York match. But then I’ll be back to Colorado. Nice.
00:11:09.450 –> 00:11:12.240
Jeff Louella: Guy have three gallons of lemon cello going on back here for
00:11:13.110 –> 00:11:15.030
Ashley Berman Hale: Them. He’s not lying it people
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Ashley Berman Hale: Dang. All right, jack you got plans later I’m gonna hang out with you.
00:11:21.990 –> 00:11:23.790
Jeff Louella: All right, let’s do it. I got tons of stuff here.
00:11:24.600 –> 00:11:26.160
Jeff Louella: The whole wall whiskies over here to
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Jamie Alberico: Why are we not doing this from just garage.
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Jeff Louella: Come on.
00:11:31.590 –> 00:11:34.080
Ashley Berman Hale: All right, Jamie I deferred you long enough. Now you have to tell
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Jamie Alberico: Magical story. I did the coffee kicking. I was supposed to be a player, right, which is a weird thing to say. And I guess I can certainly do that.
00:11:44.190 –> 00:11:59.520
Jamie Alberico: But that’s where my degree is in my passion was like, I’m gonna write plays and comic books, and then the recession in 2008 head and call times were longer than normal. And I’m trying to contact my student loan folk and find some way to pay them and he
00:12:00.810 –> 00:12:03.840
Jamie Alberico: You know, I was waiting tables at a sushi bar and
00:12:05.010 –> 00:12:12.690
Jamie Alberico: Wasn’t really glamorous bit and got into basically any job that would get me away from cutting my fingers and carrying
00:12:14.010 –> 00:12:15.750
Jamie Alberico: His family without being pushy, the end of the day.
00:12:20.790 –> 00:12:23.760
Jamie Alberico: It’s a really where my stories prematurely.
00:12:26.640 –> 00:12:29.010
Jamie Alberico: Like I did other things at some point somewhere.
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Jamie Alberico: I was a blogger Outreach Manager. That was my first gig, which is pre Penguin on if you are trying to connect to me on LinkedIn. Right now, I would offer the pro tip of remove
00:12:45.510 –> 00:12:48.720
Jamie Alberico: link building from your title before you send that letter.
00:12:48.720 –> 00:12:54.570
Jamie Alberico: Susan, thank you. I’m sure you’re a lovely human I’ve just been hurt before by choosing to copy pasta.
00:12:56.730 –> 00:13:04.320
Jamie Alberico: To the job and house for e commerce company. We like to me doesn’t products and I look back and go, Oh, it’s so cute little that
00:13:05.550 –> 00:13:12.750
Jamie Alberico: actually ended up working for Ashley. So here’s where I story interconnected. Yeah.
00:13:14.010 –> 00:13:26.580
Jamie Alberico: I interviewed a local agency and then local Jeannine the first interview, do you think is great. Like, we’re gonna put you on a video interview with our had tech SEO. We were like team Tomahawk
00:13:27.510 –> 00:13:27.960
Ashley Berman Hale: Yeah, that’s
00:13:28.380 –> 00:13:29.970
Ashley Berman Hale: Bad racial appropriation.
00:13:31.500 –> 00:13:33.570
Jamie Alberico: Sorry, I’m stating historical facts.
00:13:33.600 –> 00:13:35.370
Jamie Alberico: admitting to whitewash history right now.
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Jamie Alberico: And we’ve learned better and we’re doing better.
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Ashley Berman Hale: I just have a lot of apologies in life.
00:13:44.130 –> 00:13:57.390
Jamie Alberico: Hashtag relatable well interview with Ashley, I’m there was this this magical creature who knew all this world of technical SEO is just like a PG podcast. What kind of language. Can I bring to the table right now and reenact
00:13:57.780 –> 00:13:58.950
Jacob Stoops: Wherever you’re comfortable with.
00:14:00.870 –> 00:14:01.320
Jacob Stoops: George
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Jeff Louella: You’re
00:14:03.870 –> 00:14:05.760
Jamie Alberico: In trouble if I tell if I
00:14:06.120 –> 00:14:11.640
Jamie Alberico: Tell the internet that it was love at first Cocker so I’m interviewing with Ashley and we’re talking
00:14:12.360 –> 00:14:26.160
Jamie Alberico: I don’t remember what the deal was I think about previous job and what it was like waiting tables and somehow the story of an individual thing rather cantankerous king came up and actually
00:14:29.100 –> 00:14:33.060
Jamie Alberico: Miss, miss a big like always being a cock sucker. When you’re that guy.
00:14:34.830 –> 00:14:41.430
Jamie Alberico: On a moment we bonded and the person that hired me immediately most tech out to john Schilling, at that time, because they took us. He goes, where
00:14:41.820 –> 00:14:48.780
Jamie Alberico: And the bathroom children have both Marketing SEO traditional style and dev didn’t really have a new should have our own just yet.
00:14:49.410 –> 00:15:01.590
Jamie Alberico: I picked them several months they, you know, kick it back to me and be like, Yeah, I want you to join the team and that time I like waiting for Android little cards like, Hi, thank you so much for the opportunity to interview I really want to work with Ashley.
00:15:04.050 –> 00:15:16.770
Ashley Berman Hale: And I will do anything once somebody flatters me and we have great chemistry. So it was, it was awesome, because it was really important to me to always do some peer collaboration with technical SEO, in particular, just like you do peer reviews. When you’re coding
00:15:17.850 –> 00:15:22.050
Ashley Berman Hale: And it’s really important to me to reach back and bring more women, along with me so
00:15:23.730 –> 00:15:34.410
Ashley Berman Hale: I wasn’t far ahead and I’m certainly am a decent click behind Jamie now because she’s, she’s had a really fast trajectory. But the fact that I can bring more women on to a technical team was really fucking awesome.
00:15:36.180 –> 00:15:40.080
Jamie Alberico: It was 100 recent article women on that game. Yeah, yeah. There were two of us.
00:15:41.370 –> 00:15:41.640
Ashley Berman Hale: Math.
00:15:41.670 –> 00:15:42.030
Jeff Louella: Jackie.
00:15:42.780 –> 00:15:43.290
00:15:45.840 –> 00:15:47.040
Jeff Louella: It’s awesome. So
00:15:47.640 –> 00:15:58.080
Jacob Stoops: So I think the first thing I would ask is what is it about technical SEO that excites both of you will like why because there’s there’s all kinds of different types of SEO like
00:15:59.070 –> 00:16:06.090
Jacob Stoops: Depending on like different bat. It’s like you almost get to pick and choose what kind of SEO you like to do, and I feel like
00:16:07.650 –> 00:16:22.620
Jacob Stoops: You kind of have to be able to dabble in a little bit of everything. But I feel like over the course of time people develop their specialty based on you know what they what they enjoy most. So what is it about technical SEO specifically that you guys enjoy
00:16:23.580 –> 00:16:32.460
Ashley Berman Hale: I like thinking about the evolution of it. I always think of the adage that, you know, back in the day, everyone was their town doctor and you’re going to college. This was also your dentist.
00:16:33.060 –> 00:16:41.370
Ashley Berman Hale: Let that sink in for a second and then, you know, we started getting better and getting specialist. So I think we’re in a really cool time of SEO where there are these deep specialists.
00:16:42.600 –> 00:16:51.360
Ashley Berman Hale: I got into technical SEO because I was just so curious. Like, that seems so smart and clever and an interesting
00:16:53.310 –> 00:17:01.170
Ashley Berman Hale: That I wanted to learn it and I wanted to learn from smart people. Also, I am just a shitty marketer, like the anti marketer. I can’t write
00:17:01.770 –> 00:17:17.460
Ashley Berman Hale: Like if someone asked me write a blog, I would rather quit my job I’ve come close before a video the nine. The people who hired us who were very gentle and patient, they definitely gave up after making me white write one blog, and I, I just, I can’t promote and so for me.
00:17:17.490 –> 00:17:21.510
Jamie Alberico: For like 4000 words, it’s still one of the best resources on
00:17:23.580 –> 00:17:24.780
Jamie Alberico: Security at that time.
00:17:24.900 –> 00:17:25.830
Ashley Berman Hale: Yeah, well, I
00:17:26.160 –> 00:17:29.790
Jamie Alberico: Wrote Gordon Duff and beautiful.
00:17:31.050 –> 00:17:33.390
Jamie Alberico: White Paper, essentially. So let me give you credit
00:17:33.810 –> 00:17:34.080
00:17:36.240 –> 00:17:43.500
Ashley Berman Hale: Yeah, not liking it. It’s really hard, whereas the technical stuff. I am a voice and a snoop. And that’s why I like the Internet.
00:17:43.860 –> 00:17:54.840
Ashley Berman Hale: And I snoop on people in my free time and I snoop on your site during work time and that’s why I love it. I like to go find problems and tinker and figure out what somebody busted and how we can make it better.
00:17:55.860 –> 00:17:56.400
About you, James.
00:17:58.410 –> 00:18:10.860
Jamie Alberico: Oh, I fell in love with technical SEO I missed it. I was hired for cascade and as a marketing SEO went to work on the blog and all that, but in my domain was, you know, monitoring our
00:18:11.430 –> 00:18:19.800
Jamie Alberico: keywords and we were, I think, the second or third largest e commerce site for restaurant equipment on suddenly all of my rankings just
00:18:20.340 –> 00:18:29.100
Jamie Alberico: fell out they’ll drop the bomb dropped them and maybe we can figure out what’s going on. And that led down and it’s really good 11 day binge.
00:18:29.520 –> 00:18:43.740
Jamie Alberico: Like some people go to Vegas when they go on a binge. I went like an 11 day binge of like trying to figure out what happened to this website. And at the end of it. It was a home of homebrew CMS, the result we had to break the site. Fine.
00:18:44.880 –> 00:18:59.340
Jamie Alberico: And kind of start from scratch. I had to go here and learn about how to map all of the specific content together, how to figure out when things were no longer useful. That’s my son yelling at us right now, by the way. Hi tank boy. Say hello to the internet.
00:19:02.460 –> 00:19:11.310
Jacob Stoops: By the way, I super impressed that you managed to keep talking without breaking stride as you let your cat in and open your curtains. That was pretty. That was pretty awesome.
00:19:12.300 –> 00:19:16.290
Jamie Alberico: Sorry internet tank takes precedence on all matters. Yeah.
00:19:18.390 –> 00:19:22.830
Jamie Alberico: That’s, yeah. I fell in love with mechanical co authoring getting that chance to
00:19:24.060 –> 00:19:35.100
Jamie Alberico: Say what we say a dying site. We have to go through to make a series of very dramatic changes and that rebuilding at home growing CML and increasingly great band of it.
00:19:37.950 –> 00:19:40.020
Jeff Louella: I think it comes down to a lot of
00:19:41.040 –> 00:19:55.350
Jeff Louella: A lot of people get here, and that’s one reason I love like the origin story he’s because we all get here in different ways and whether you’re coming from a technical background or not it. We all one thing we have in common is that curiosity to dive deep
00:19:55.680 –> 00:20:00.930
Jeff Louella: And 11 days to their I spent. It’s funny, I used to do web development and
00:20:02.070 –> 00:20:19.020
Jeff Louella: Most of my friends were on AT LIKE AFTER MIDNIGHT AND ONCE A while I’m not on online as much that late night. But when I am. It’s still the same people, same developer guys like cuz it’s like some reason my brain starts tweaking and start doing well at like 11 o’clock. Yeah, so
00:20:19.080 –> 00:20:22.740
Jamie Alberico: That weird golden hour of Cannibal logical brain that
00:20:22.770 –> 00:20:25.320
Jamie Alberico: Yeah, we do later in the evening.
00:20:26.760 –> 00:20:38.130
Jeff Louella: So it’s fun. And I’ve spent many, many, many hours just like going down a rabbit hole and no one ever know like at the end of the day, my wife will be like, what are we doing go four in the morning, not just like
00:20:38.670 –> 00:20:45.510
Jeff Louella: I don’t know. I was trying to get some code work and sometimes it’s just you missed a period somewhere and now it’s two in the morning and
00:20:45.780 –> 00:20:46.020
00:20:47.070 –> 00:20:47.760
Jamie Alberico: fancy clothes.
00:20:51.090 –> 00:21:01.710
Jeff Louella: So, and then having that like coming into the SEO side of things, really, kind of, it’s interesting. It’s one thing I have trouble with with new guys coming into SEO. It’s like
00:21:02.610 –> 00:21:07.290
Jeff Louella: I want to learn technical SEO and I’m like, are you willing to stay up for 10 days and try
00:21:07.890 –> 00:21:21.180
Jeff Louella: Out some piece of something that just drives you crazy. You can’t go to sleep until you figure it out and and you can’t teach that, of course, and it’s one of those where we trying to figure out what like how do I get that into a lot of my team. How do I get into them and
00:21:21.930 –> 00:21:23.010
Jamie Alberico: Either. How do I do that.
00:21:23.100 –> 00:21:29.790
Jamie Alberico: Cheryl ambition interview process. You just give them two pieces of drinking a paperclip go kidnap and see
00:21:30.810 –> 00:21:33.720
Jamie Alberico: If they can do is that you’re new to this.
00:21:34.020 –> 00:21:34.950
Jeff Louella: Never thought about that one.
00:21:35.250 –> 00:21:36.210
Jacob Stoops: MacGyver style.
00:21:36.690 –> 00:21:45.900
Jamie Alberico: Yeah, I mean I was figuring out how to make an unusual shape spec for they had the actual app items when
00:21:46.350 –> 00:21:56.730
Jamie Alberico: I was a game changer for me a call. I can go ahead and make all these API calls. And I can begin to reuse this work and, you know, each time I do I swap out, pick up, pick and choose configuration and
00:21:57.210 –> 00:22:12.270
Jamie Alberico: Let me scale up so they get good pieces learning to be a Technic technical SEO is after you’ve gone through and burn yourself out on an insane rabbit hole that you know showed you some great things as to how do I read that information.
00:22:13.980 –> 00:22:19.020
Ashley Berman Hale: You’re failing nine and 10 times tinkering around then SEO technical SEO for you.
00:22:20.040 –> 00:22:26.220
Jamie Alberico: So you want to fail, like a flying SPACE MONKEY and plume of fireworks and we have a career for you.
00:22:27.690 –> 00:22:41.250
Jacob Stoops: One thing I am finding interesting is I think three out of four of us have a background in the in the arts. So I come from a graphic design background. We’ve got an art history background.
00:22:41.760 –> 00:23:00.390
Jacob Stoops: And then kind of a playwriting background. And it’s like, That’s not very technical stuff I’m I mean I’m sure there is some technicality to it, but it’s not like code in as my in laws say Jake works on computers and really don’t, um,
00:23:02.190 –> 00:23:05.190
Jamie Alberico: I mean, check out gun applies the code and the playwriting
00:23:05.220 –> 00:23:05.670
Jacob Stoops: Right and
00:23:06.060 –> 00:23:07.890
Jamie Alberico: They got enough one a bit of fire and three
00:23:08.940 –> 00:23:22.410
Jacob Stoops: I just wonder where the not even necessarily the the technical SEO. The, the SEO part of it. But with that kind of a background amongst all of us, where do we feel like
00:23:22.980 –> 00:23:26.340
Jacob Stoops: The, the need and the passion because I’m very passionate about.
00:23:27.150 –> 00:23:36.060
Jacob Stoops: Technical SEO as well, although I don’t like to be bucket it as a technical SEO. I like to be bucket it as just more of a general like jack of all trades, but
00:23:36.630 –> 00:23:49.800
Jacob Stoops: There is a certain passion for getting in and getting my hands dirty and, you know, with a website and coming from a graphic design background. I just wonder like sometimes. Where did that come from.
00:23:49.890 –> 00:23:50.340
Ashley Berman Hale: I just
00:23:50.730 –> 00:24:06.780
Jacob Stoops: I can’t even put my put my finger on it because graphic design is more art, whereas I feel like technical and coding and building websites is a little bit more science. So I don’t know, maybe I feel like. And I guess I needed some balance in in the second half of my life.
00:24:07.380 –> 00:24:13.710
Ashley Berman Hale: And I have I have pretty strong feelings about that after being chastised for mocking my degree.
00:24:15.210 –> 00:24:19.530
Ashley Berman Hale: Listen, my dad looked at me and rolled his eyes and he said, good luck paying for college on your own.
00:24:20.160 –> 00:24:25.050
Ashley Berman Hale: But art history is one of those degrees, where people are like, what the hell are you going to do with that so
00:24:25.800 –> 00:24:29.430
Ashley Berman Hale: I will tell you that the greatest thing I learned from my degrees to spend time looking
00:24:30.150 –> 00:24:39.030
Ashley Berman Hale: And critical thinking. Because what you can do is you can uncover individual parts of a painting or learn about someone’s life or what was going on in the culture was going on in the economy.
00:24:39.570 –> 00:24:42.270
Ashley Berman Hale: With diseases were being spread based on the iconography.
00:24:42.750 –> 00:24:51.210
Ashley Berman Hale: And when you look at someone site, you’re essentially stripping back layers of. Where are they getting their imagery. What’s the content. What’s the history of the site and how many hands gone through
00:24:51.870 –> 00:25:01.860
Ashley Berman Hale: And then you pull back further to see what the bones are and where the skeletons are hidden the bad ones, the broken bones. I don’t know where I’m going with this. Yeah, but
00:25:01.890 –> 00:25:06.810
Jamie Alberico: Someone redesigned it and it was like that fresco about the will and his woman repainted.
00:25:07.140 –> 00:25:07.860
Ashley Berman Hale: Oh yeah, the none.
00:25:07.980 –> 00:25:10.530
Ashley Berman Hale: None that repainting yes we have done many
00:25:11.520 –> 00:25:12.540
Sites in our life.
00:25:13.860 –> 00:25:23.490
Ashley Berman Hale: But it does feel like there’s a really good intersection of I think Fine Arts and Humanities help teach people to be open about humans and to look critically
00:25:24.090 –> 00:25:37.380
Ashley Berman Hale: At what they create. And so while I have a laughable degree to some people, and I’ll be the first to make a joke. I really don’t think I could do what I do today without having spent the time and learning how to unravel the story from that degree.
00:25:39.030 –> 00:25:46.410
Jacob Stoops: I think that’s a great point night I honestly I never thought about it that way. And I remember being in college and thinking a little bit. The
00:25:47.220 –> 00:25:53.400
Jacob Stoops: The same thing as I was kind of getting getting deeper. Maybe that’s why it never actually worked worked out for me.
00:25:54.000 –> 00:26:11.850
Jacob Stoops: In terms of the graphic design in college and kind of taking that into A into a career because I was worried about money and how I was going to pay for things and so on and so forth. And it’s not necessarily unless you’re really, really, really good or really rare.
00:26:11.850 –> 00:26:16.770
Jacob Stoops: Talent not saying SEOs aren’t talented, but I think
00:26:17.850 –> 00:26:19.380
Jamie Alberico: At that again from the machine.
00:26:19.770 –> 00:26:21.030
Jamie Alberico: Right, while you’re in a job.
00:26:21.060 –> 00:26:35.010
Jacob Stoops: Great. You don’t even know. Exactly. Exactly. And I think like the timing for me was just right because this is like mid 2000s. And as I was flaming out of college SEO was
00:26:36.570 –> 00:26:47.640
Jacob Stoops: A great opportunity that not a lot of people could could do at that point in time. And I was like, well, well, there’s my differentiator. There’s what, there’s. What can make me unique and I feel like a lot of people
00:26:48.540 –> 00:27:08.580
Jacob Stoops: Ended up like that, in terms of looking looking for something else and not necessarily knowing what it was and not being able to put your finger on it. But before you know it, you’ve got a job in SEO at that time. Not a lot of people knew how to do which made it incredibly valuable.
00:27:09.900 –> 00:27:12.450
Jacob Stoops: Yeah. Was it was pretty that’s kind of
00:27:12.720 –> 00:27:14.700
Jamie Alberico: My philosophy.
00:27:15.960 –> 00:27:36.090
Jamie Alberico: And I find that my analytics philosophy is if if L statements for trying to muscle. So I absolutely deplorable and how good your do my mid term on the meaning of the word completely terrible back knowledge now deeply, deeply value that code is just living, we’re looking at it. Yeah.
00:27:37.980 –> 00:27:55.980
Jacob Stoops: So one thing I detected and Ashley, I’m calling you to the carpet again. And the reason I’m calling you to the carpet, not necessarily calling you to the carpet in a negative way we do talk a lot about self doubt and imposter syndrome and how
00:27:57.000 –> 00:28:11.940
Jacob Stoops: Powerful that can be and based on kind of what you had said about the writing and not necessarily feeling like you’re a good writer. And I’ve actually i feel like i’ve read your, your stuff for quite a while so like I think you’re doing something right.
00:28:13.830 –> 00:28:22.350
Jacob Stoops: Like, do you ever feel a sense of imposter syndrome and like self doubt. And I don’t know, I just, I always like to dive into that ask
00:28:22.770 –> 00:28:23.670
Jamie Alberico: You actually
00:28:25.470 –> 00:28:29.580
Ashley Berman Hale: Do I every single waking minutes, um,
00:28:30.600 –> 00:28:31.410
Ashley Berman Hale: No, I think that
00:28:31.470 –> 00:28:38.460
Ashley Berman Hale: You know, it’s a pendulum. I think that, in general, I feel like I am utter bullshit at most things
00:28:38.970 –> 00:28:46.470
Ashley Berman Hale: But the one thing that makes me feel good about myself and about the work that I’m doing is when I can help somebody else, whether it’s to solve a problem or
00:28:47.130 –> 00:28:53.280
Ashley Berman Hale: To get a better job I end up being this random career counselor and helping people get good jobs which I actually like I love doing.
00:28:54.960 –> 00:28:59.610
Ashley Berman Hale: But I, I really struggle with my knowledge and I had to come to terms with. I’m never going to be the
00:28:59.820 –> 00:29:05.220
Ashley Berman Hale: smartest person in the room. But if you’re the kind of person that surround yourself with smarter people like you’re in pretty you’re in a pretty good spot.
00:29:05.490 –> 00:29:12.840
Ashley Berman Hale: And I may not be the most clever, but I do like to learn and I have an appetite to learn and to try to understand so
00:29:13.410 –> 00:29:21.600
Ashley Berman Hale: imposter syndrome is really, really, really, really real. And I suffered in other areas of my life, including being a parent and playing a sport, but
00:29:22.230 –> 00:29:28.500
Ashley Berman Hale: If you can find one thing about yourself that you can put work toward that you can feel good about I’ve found that it allows me to sort of keep going.
00:29:29.010 –> 00:29:40.770
Ashley Berman Hale: And when I can’t. I call Jamie and she usually tells me to buck up that I am an important person with, you know, capital T thoughts and I deserve to be here and I can help people so
00:29:41.340 –> 00:29:46.620
Ashley Berman Hale: But it is something I struggle with. And it’s not even this passive struggling, it’s, I mean, I can’t even tell you I have
00:29:46.950 –> 00:29:54.450
Ashley Berman Hale: So I have OCD, but like obsessive thought patterns and one that’s been in my head for about 17 years is waking up and just wanting to scream into the void Mia, what the fuck am I even doing
00:29:54.990 –> 00:30:11.070
Ashley Berman Hale: What is this like and you could probably go back through my Twitter and see like how many times I’ve actually tweeted tweeted that out is like what am I even doing to help. Um so yeah I don’t recommend it but if anyone wants to talk about the old capitalized syndrome from here.
00:30:11.220 –> 00:30:25.320
Jacob Stoops: Understand in the reason I asked was, and I hope it didn’t come across as rude. Um, I saw I suffer from it as well. It’s like it’s, it can be crushing sometimes and for me.
00:30:26.160 –> 00:30:42.840
Jacob Stoops: Part of digging myself out of it was that this podcast going and feeling like, hey, I am good enough to go and talk to all of these really smart people, and I do know enough to be able to hold my ground.
00:30:43.560 –> 00:30:53.640
Jacob Stoops: With some of the best best folks in the in the industry and there’s just, it’s not just here, it permeates a lot of different parts of my life, and it is it is a daily
00:30:54.420 –> 00:31:08.580
Jacob Stoops: A daily struggle, and I know like it has been other than SEO. In general, probably the most frequently reoccurring subject across every episode of the podcast. So in the industry for whatever
00:31:09.300 –> 00:31:22.050
Jacob Stoops: Reason, you’ve got a bunch of people suffering from imposter syndrome. And it’s, I just, I find it quite amazing because of how many smart people there are, that people
00:31:23.190 –> 00:31:32.760
Jacob Stoops: That are that are that are incredibly, incredibly talented don’t seem to believe in their self and I just keep asking why, why is that, and
00:31:33.330 –> 00:31:45.030
Jacob Stoops: I think one of the best things that can come out of this podcast is to let people know. Like, you’re not alone. Some of the best people in the industry have self doubt literally all the time.
00:31:46.710 –> 00:31:48.600
Ashley Berman Hale: All the time. All the time and
00:31:48.690 –> 00:31:50.700
Jamie Alberico: I think our industry is made for it, though.
00:31:50.910 –> 00:31:51.720
Ashley Berman Hale: Yeah, it really is.
00:31:52.950 –> 00:31:55.260
Jamie Alberico: Our end everything we do.
00:31:55.740 –> 00:31:56.040
Jacob Stoops: Yeah.
00:31:56.130 –> 00:32:02.010
Jamie Alberico: I’m there is very much the chance. You’ve been down this rabbit hole for so long. You come back up. You like Melbourne coast.
00:32:03.360 –> 00:32:09.540
Jamie Alberico: You’re no longer sure if you’ve gone full broken Roomba or have you figured out something incredibly valuable. Yeah, yeah.
00:32:09.990 –> 00:32:17.940
Jacob Stoops: And I feel like there are times, especially if you work on the agency side. I haven’t necessarily experienced this quite as much in house but like
00:32:18.780 –> 00:32:37.890
Jacob Stoops: There’s a lot of pressure and you can be the the best SEO, but if you’re putting a situation where there’s just no opportunity to succeed, doesn’t really matter how good of an SEO, you are. For example, if a client doesn’t implement your recommendations and then nothing
00:32:37.890 –> 00:32:39.300
Ashley Berman Hale: Happens right so
00:32:39.570 –> 00:32:48.210
Jacob Stoops: I think even the best SEOs go through a lot of failure and hopefully a lot of success as well, right, or we wouldn’t have jobs, but I think there’s a fear of
00:32:48.780 –> 00:32:55.620
Jacob Stoops: Failure with our clients as well as success and sometimes it’s in our hands and a lot of times it’s not
00:32:56.610 –> 00:33:08.910
Jacob Stoops: And I think for me, like there are times when that part of its crushing like okay, what can I say to make them think differently or to make them realize that hey, this is actually
00:33:09.330 –> 00:33:16.950
Jacob Stoops: We’re doing. We’re doing well, even if the results don’t fight look like it yet, stuff like that. So there’s a lot of pressure.
00:33:17.700 –> 00:33:21.840
Ashley Berman Hale: Well, sorry. Is it okay if I hop back in here cuz yeah
00:33:22.380 –> 00:33:35.640
Ashley Berman Hale: Well, and you’re dealing with such smart people. Right. I might think I’m clever and then I take two days off to roller skate and drink myself into oblivion, and come back and the entire industry has changed. So it’s very easy to feel like you’re slipping.
00:33:37.080 –> 00:33:44.550
Ashley Berman Hale: But I, I really, really love this new trend that our industry has of kind of coming together to support each other because I have a pretty big gap.
00:33:45.150 –> 00:33:54.540
Ashley Berman Hale: In my SEO career as far as paid jobs and it was because of the toxic environment and the culture that we were in it just didn’t feel good it felt kind of gross like there was some shitty things happening.
00:33:56.220 –> 00:34:05.460
Ashley Berman Hale: But now I i love that people are talking more to each other. If you don’t know Mary Davies and the industry. She has created groups that help people and give them a safe place to talk about
00:34:05.760 –> 00:34:16.740
Ashley Berman Hale: Their personal struggles that I find really incredible. And for me, personally, I’ve I’m trying to be very brave capital, be brave, about talking about my mental illness and my doubts and the bad days that I have
00:34:17.430 –> 00:34:25.950
Ashley Berman Hale: And I have felt not only accepted but embraced and holy shit, I still have a job like some of the stuff I say in public. I can’t believe but
00:34:26.460 –> 00:34:30.990
Ashley Berman Hale: Being able to be out there and be vulnerable hasn’t hurt my career as far as I know.
00:34:31.740 –> 00:34:41.340
Ashley Berman Hale: But I would just encourage anyone if you’re in that place and you feel any sort of really from talking about it. You’re in good company and not in good company. As in, like, hell yeah let’s have a depression party.
00:34:42.900 –> 00:34:52.860
Ashley Berman Hale: Because I have thrown other parties that are better, but you’re in good company in that there’s generally some really compassionate people here that can empathize and can stand by you.
00:34:53.460 –> 00:34:59.880
Ashley Berman Hale: And sometimes that’s all you mean like sometimes I get a lot just from going to Jamie’s house or meeting somewhere and working side by side without even talking
00:35:01.290 –> 00:35:04.170
Ashley Berman Hale: I’ve worked remotely for 10 years. So that’s very important.
00:35:05.220 –> 00:35:07.290
Jamie Alberico: Yeah, come on, really.
00:35:08.160 –> 00:35:08.730
Ashley Berman Hale: You’re three
00:35:09.180 –> 00:35:13.890
Jeff Louella: Now you’re if three of being removed, I guess, somewhere around there and I do
00:35:14.400 –> 00:35:24.810
Jeff Louella: sometimes miss having that camaraderie in the office where you you can’t talk about some of the stuff that’s on your, you know, things that are on your team. I mean, I really feel after watching a lot of the tech SEO boost stuff.
00:35:25.350 –> 00:35:35.550
Jeff Louella: I’m like, wow, I think, I think I need to really step up my game because 80% of that was about Python and machine learning, which
00:35:35.970 –> 00:35:45.900
Jeff Louella: I do think has you know a place. It just seemed like a whole conference based on it kind of made me like think overnight. I’m all of a sudden going like, I’m so far behind. I think it’s just why
00:35:47.760 –> 00:35:49.170
Jeff Louella: I always felt like I was pretty
00:35:49.170 –> 00:35:56.280
Jeff Louella: Much always a little bit of a step ahead. But I think one. Now we have with there is such a great tech community.
00:35:56.730 –> 00:36:03.330
Jeff Louella: That it’s like, oh, I think the tech guys aren’t the ones that are out there like pounding your chest, saying, look at me, and think now we have
00:36:03.990 –> 00:36:13.590
Jeff Louella: More of that community. And you know what the tech SEO slack group that were in there and I’m just like, wow, there’s like a million tech SEOs i thought i was like a one of a kind.
00:36:17.490 –> 00:36:21.120
Jeff Louella: And now there’s just yeah like that whole conference. I was watching going okay
00:36:22.650 –> 00:36:25.410
Jamie Alberico: I mean jr was like, and I made my own internet
00:36:25.470 –> 00:36:25.980
Jeff Louella: Yeah.
00:36:26.310 –> 00:36:27.510
Jamie Alberico: The bar was raised.
00:36:28.200 –> 00:36:33.810
Ashley Berman Hale: Yeah, the best like I swear to God, if I wasn’t married. He’s in trouble because those brains.
00:36:34.560 –> 00:36:41.730
Jacob Stoops: Looking I’m smart and like, I’m like, people like Jr. I’m like damn it I blame you. It’s your fault for being so smart, and I’m so
00:36:43.260 –> 00:36:43.410
Jacob Stoops: And
00:36:43.920 –> 00:36:44.490
Jeff Louella: So,
00:36:44.790 –> 00:36:45.930
Jeff Louella: He’s got that Southern charm.
00:36:45.960 –> 00:36:48.000
Ashley Berman Hale: Tuesday. Oh yeah, well,
00:36:49.080 –> 00:36:50.640
Jamie Alberico: Cupid, though, and I think we need to I
00:36:50.640 –> 00:36:51.270
Jacob Stoops: Know, I know.
00:36:51.990 –> 00:36:52.590
Jacob Stoops: Matt.
00:36:52.650 –> 00:36:54.750
Jacob Stoops: Was being facetious. This
00:36:56.220 –> 00:36:56.490
Jamie Alberico: But
00:36:56.550 –> 00:37:02.340
Jamie Alberico: Something that I’ll share my story here about feeling stupid and Ashley really being there for me because it’s like
00:37:04.770 –> 00:37:17.700
Jamie Alberico: So we went to tech. Are you into Google IO together. My first I, oh, I think it was 2016 HF, we went to. And if you’ve ever been to IO, you can go to
00:37:18.450 –> 00:37:32.400
Jamie Alberico: This panel to panel to panel with the most amazing experts in their field who knows so much on are bringing so much to move the community forward on to celebrate. I spent the day
00:37:33.150 –> 00:37:40.770
Jamie Alberico: Together concert every year and I spent the concert in bathroom so 27 hyperventilating and having an absolute panic attack.
00:37:41.220 –> 00:37:48.810
Jamie Alberico: On why I was there on how I had taken a spot from someone who could event here and using this information actually done something with it.
00:37:49.770 –> 00:38:00.900
Jamie Alberico: It was it was a terrible, terrible sensation. But at the end of it. I learned to offer myself grace and in those moments where I am clearly the dumbest kid in the room.
00:38:01.410 –> 00:38:12.450
Jamie Alberico: And that’s okay because I’m still in the room, and I’m willing to ask those questions that seem so one on one. And I feel like I’m willing to
00:38:12.960 –> 00:38:20.940
Jamie Alberico: Learn from people who are a lot smarter than me so Ashley prides herself on and curating up selection of really, really beautiful and brilliant people
00:38:21.900 –> 00:38:37.290
Jamie Alberico: Being around her and I learned to get there myself learn that it’s okay to feel like I have no idea what I’m doing. Like that’s officially now my happy place is an absence of gravity just picking a point in my horizons. Right.
00:38:38.250 –> 00:38:50.640
Ashley Berman Hale: Yeah, I, I considered a special talent to be surrounded by people that are smarter than you and then instead of feeling self conscious. If you can find comfort there and excitement there, then you’re you are good. I’m going to do.
00:38:50.670 –> 00:38:52.200
Jamie Alberico: Like roller derby for the ego.
00:38:52.500 –> 00:39:01.050
Ashley Berman Hale: Yeah, yeah. I’m also the worst roller derby player, but if you can find comfort in getting your actual ass kicked. Then it’s for you.
00:39:02.280 –> 00:39:03.690
Jamie Alberico: Humble here again because you just
00:39:03.720 –> 00:39:05.340
Jamie Alberico: Want on fallible brawl.
00:39:06.990 –> 00:39:09.570
Ashley Berman Hale: Oh yeah, I wonder, be prom queen, you guys.
00:39:09.630 –> 00:39:11.070
Jeff Louella: I’m so nice.
00:39:11.400 –> 00:39:13.050
Jacob Stoops: How long have you been doing roller derby.
00:39:13.350 –> 00:39:28.980
Ashley Berman Hale: Um, two and a half years, something like that. Not very long. It’s the first sport. I’ve ever played and I am an overweight, you know, working person who sits down for the last 36 years of my 36 year life. So it was a trip and a challenge. But heck
00:39:30.090 –> 00:39:38.580
Jacob Stoops: What, like what puts you because roller derby is not something like people do very often. So like you’re sitting around two or three years ago, like
00:39:40.140 –> 00:39:43.920
Jacob Stoops: Maybe I think I’ll go do roller derby like how did that come about.
00:39:45.060 –> 00:39:54.900
Ashley Berman Hale: So, um, I have two very fabulous daughters and the oldest one was into real interview she had read a graphic novel called roller girl, which is a fantastic graphic novel.
00:39:55.500 –> 00:40:01.290
Ashley Berman Hale: And she was interested in doing it, but I didn’t know anything about it. And we found out that there was a local team for adults and juniors
00:40:02.910 –> 00:40:11.550
Ashley Berman Hale: And she wasn’t quite old enough, and so I told her that I would give it a shot and see how this whole roller derby thing worked and
00:40:12.300 –> 00:40:20.670
Ashley Berman Hale: I gave it a shot and definitely threw up like my first night there, but was like dude, this this gear is expensive. I have to do this three months. Otherwise, like
00:40:21.150 –> 00:40:26.760
Ashley Berman Hale: I’ve made a financial mistake which makes me nervous. So I stuck on for three months and just kept going.
00:40:27.270 –> 00:40:33.150
Ashley Berman Hale: It’s a, it’s a funny environment. I know it seems you know a bit abrasive. But I will tell you that I have found
00:40:33.720 –> 00:40:44.040
Ashley Berman Hale: More community with other women there than I have any other place in my life more acceptance more diverse women, they will absolutely murder you on the track, but they’re the first ones to pick you up off the floor.
00:40:44.970 –> 00:40:56.700
Ashley Berman Hale: Constant compliments and encouragement, so maybe I’m there for the ego. I’m not the best roller skater. But it just feels really good to be around genuine people that want to see you succeed, but also are not going to go easy on you.
00:40:57.150 –> 00:40:59.190
Jacob Stoops: And that are going to elbow you in the face.
00:40:59.850 –> 00:41:09.720
Ashley Berman Hale: Sometimes I mean that’s not fully legal, but hey, but you know they’re the first person is to drive you to the ER and bring you a muffin while you’re waiting for the x ray so
00:41:10.950 –> 00:41:24.180
Ashley Berman Hale: So it’s a really solid community. I would say that, you know, when we work on computers so much. I would encourage you to get a hobby that involves your hands or physically wearing yourself out that’s been really important for the balance of my mental health to
00:41:26.340 –> 00:41:30.960
Ashley Berman Hale: Anyway, joined realtor becomes skate with me to cover letter b.com alright, just kidding.
00:41:31.050 –> 00:41:31.650
Jacob Stoops: Farther
00:41:32.640 –> 00:41:38.550
Jacob Stoops: Now, forgive me for my roller derby knowledge are there men’s roller derby circuits.
00:41:38.610 –> 00:41:39.120
Ashley Berman Hale: There are
00:41:39.180 –> 00:41:40.710
Jacob Stoops: Indeed, wow.
00:41:40.770 –> 00:41:50.670
Ashley Berman Hale: Yeah, there are Myrna which is my favorite acronym is the one and it’s the men’s roller derby Association. There’s a great team in Denver, where Jamie is there, same all over the country.
00:41:51.210 –> 00:42:05.880
Ashley Berman Hale: Still pretty female dominated. It’s a for women by women volunteer run sport all nonprofits. So we have a pretty strongly, but in the men’s roller derby women are also welcome to join. So usually when I meant to be one or two women.
00:42:07.770 –> 00:42:09.660
Ashley Berman Hale: But yeah, get out there strap on your skates.
00:42:09.900 –> 00:42:12.570
Ashley Berman Hale: I had no one to help you come up with a penny Derby name.
00:42:12.720 –> 00:42:14.190
Ashley Berman Hale: I got you. Oh.
00:42:14.670 –> 00:42:19.740
Jeff Louella: No, I’m gonna be taking my daughter to we were she’s found a new love for roller skating.
00:42:20.250 –> 00:42:30.630
Jeff Louella: And I mean, she’s only nine now but she’s I told her I was gonna take it a roller derby and she’s super excited but then the the league that’s around here went on break. But it could THEY COME BACK THE END OF JANUARY so
00:42:31.560 –> 00:42:36.960
Ashley Berman Hale: We’re on break too but Jeff, you said ping me offline because my nine year old was the one who got me into it.
00:42:37.020 –> 00:42:40.650
Jeff Louella: That’s awesome. Well, hopefully it doesn’t get me into it into it but
00:42:43.020 –> 00:42:47.070
Ashley Berman Hale: But it’s hard to roller skate and not smile so straps escapes on
00:42:47.430 –> 00:42:57.840
Jeff Louella: Agreed. Now, they were fun. We go out there. We every kid in my house has a sport and my one daughter. We finally found. She’s an artist. She’s the artist of the family, but we found her sport, which is roller skating so
00:42:58.020 –> 00:43:06.750
Ashley Berman Hale: Isn’t that crazy how it works. Um, so, Jacob and Jeff, if you’re okay with this. Since we talked earlier a little bit of imposter syndrome. I’m going to
00:43:07.230 –> 00:43:22.650
Ashley Berman Hale: I’m going to say off topic. Real quick, and want to put them on a last thought out there on that item is just that we’ve had a lot of suicides in our industry, the past few years, there’s been I think I know this. There’s been too many one is too many. But there’s been too many
00:43:23.700 –> 00:43:35.280
Ashley Berman Hale: So I just open invitation. If anyone out there is Phil and rough and wants to chat. I am wicked good at bad memes mom jokes inappropriate comments and drunk texting, so
00:43:36.960 –> 00:43:39.480
Ashley Berman Hale: Just reach out and talk to someone. Yeah, I would.
00:43:39.990 –> 00:43:43.380
Jacob Stoops: I would say the same. I would offer the same invitation. I’ve
00:43:44.460 –> 00:43:51.540
Jacob Stoops: I mean, not everybody has been able to have experience with people going through that I do have
00:43:51.990 –> 00:44:05.340
Jacob Stoops: Experienced not necessarily myself but somebody very close to me has been battling with that and having those types of thoughts. So I’m maybe a little more well suited than than, than the next person. So I would also offer
00:44:06.660 –> 00:44:09.840
Jacob Stoops: Community to anyone that needs to talk and
00:44:11.130 –> 00:44:17.100
Jacob Stoops: Please reach out reach out you’ve got you’ve got friends, you’ve got family. Don’t let it go too far.
00:44:18.420 –> 00:44:19.470
Jacob Stoops: Don’t let it go too far.
00:44:20.820 –> 00:44:22.440
Jacob Stoops: Okay, we just got
00:44:22.620 –> 00:44:27.150
Ashley Berman Hale: Really really taken like I am so sorry I’ve cried twice so
00:44:27.210 –> 00:44:27.900
Jacob Stoops: It’s gonna be done.
00:44:28.380 –> 00:44:30.720
Jacob Stoops: Once I’ve almost tear it up. So, man.
00:44:31.080 –> 00:44:31.530
God, I’m gonna
00:44:33.270 –> 00:44:34.740
Jacob Stoops: Get me here. Um,
00:44:35.430 –> 00:44:42.690
Jamie Alberico: Well, I think it was monotone robot and I’ve been a beautiful because we are fallible soft, squishy people
00:44:43.380 –> 00:44:52.140
Jamie Alberico: And being real humans is what keeps us together in a world that’s based on ideas and one TV respond partners and
00:44:52.950 –> 00:44:54.900
Jacob Stoops: Those that were not a robot came from.
00:44:42.120 –> 00:45:50.160
Jamie Alberico: Not a Robot coming from Ashley Berman Hale. Yeah, her bio section of the website says, I’m not a robot and she was sharing this off to me.
00:45:51.270 –> 00:45:56.970
Jamie Alberico: Just fantastic getting tickets and make a new branch all together, have an interest in doing well, can I
00:45:58.050 –> 00:46:04.050
Jamie Alberico: Have to Google domains bought the domain fun drinking game. By the way, just go when you get drugged by random domains.
00:46:04.800 –> 00:46:17.160
Jamie Alberico: Robot may have been purchased in one of those moments, a couple of beers and it’s a it’s very effective way to help people understand, you know, I guess, to where I said, all those captures you fill out. I’m not a robot. But I thought
00:46:20.190 –> 00:46:21.420
Jeff Louella: I recently bought a domain.
00:46:22.440 –> 00:46:23.520
Jeff Louella: Lasers and bacon.
00:46:23.610 –> 00:46:25.800
Jeff Louella: Because I figured. What’s cooler than lasers and bacon.
00:46:26.340 –> 00:46:26.820
Jamie Alberico: That that
00:46:29.250 –> 00:46:30.690
Jacob Stoops: We can do with that site. Yeah.
00:46:31.830 –> 00:46:37.710
Jeff Louella: You know that goes right now it’s in the vault of 30 other web domains, I one day, one wants to start so
00:46:39.210 –> 00:46:43.830
Jacob Stoops: Wow, what are, what made you think that and how much you had a drink.
00:46:46.020 –> 00:46:52.710
Jeff Louella: You know, I was looking, I was looking up laser engraving machines. And I was like, you know, it makes lasers cooler bacon.
00:46:54.900 –> 00:46:56.970
Jacob Stoops: Bacon just makes everything cooler, I guess.
00:46:57.300 –> 00:46:59.310
Jamie Alberico: Why are you custom engraving, the bacon.
00:47:00.750 –> 00:47:01.620
Jeff Louella: Know,
00:47:01.680 –> 00:47:02.820
Jamie Alberico: If any wedding thing.
00:47:03.270 –> 00:47:04.020
Jamie Alberico: Could be.
00:47:04.800 –> 00:47:06.630
Ashley Berman Hale: Market market it do it now.
00:47:09.690 –> 00:47:10.560
Ashley Berman Hale: The only thing that
00:47:10.950 –> 00:47:16.230
Jacob Stoops: Does not make cooler what sounds cool is vodka, that that
00:47:16.260 –> 00:47:17.280
I’ve had baked out
00:47:18.870 –> 00:47:19.410
Jacob Stoops: Bad
00:47:20.640 –> 00:47:22.350
Jamie Alberico: flavor to it. That’s not okay.
00:47:23.730 –> 00:47:27.840
Jamie Alberico: Yeah, yeah. I’ve been working a Bloody Mary, but that’s the only time she
00:47:27.840 –> 00:47:30.510
Jamie Alberico: Really apply practical application of that about God.
00:47:32.430 –> 00:47:32.970
Jacob Stoops: I’m
00:47:34.230 –> 00:47:36.300
Jacob Stoops: writing and speaking so
00:47:37.740 –> 00:47:47.490
Jacob Stoops: Jamie nationally. I feel like you guys both do a mix or a fair amount of both writing and public speaking.
00:47:48.600 –> 00:47:58.290
00:47:59.520 –> 00:48:08.910
Jacob Stoops: Video with Martin, um, how did that come about and and after that question. I’d love to get into the public speaking side of things, but I wanted to ask
00:48:08.940 –> 00:48:09.990
Ashley Berman Hale: You. I mean, is
00:48:11.550 –> 00:48:17.760
Ashley Berman Hale: I just would do. That is so cool that you are that person. I just know it tickles me. So yeah, thanks for bringing that up because it’s pretty bad.
00:48:18.240 –> 00:48:18.510
00:48:19.830 –> 00:48:25.680
00:48:26.700 –> 00:48:28.020
Jamie Alberico: That started
00:48:29.460 –> 00:48:36.540
Jamie Alberico: Doing migrations international talk to Brighton SEO. I think that was my second or third talk ever you want to count meetups as well.
00:48:38.160 –> 00:48:49.890
00:48:50.430 –> 00:49:01.230
Jamie Alberico: I’m terrible at time zones absolutely awful at it ended up being like three in the morning seven my leg TARDIS bath road my blue hairs all a frenzy on
00:49:01.920 –> 00:49:08.070
Jamie Alberico: The screen based up and they realized oh my face, my face was like 15 feet wide right now because that’s the Google office.
00:49:08.880 –> 00:49:16.350
Jamie Alberico: And I just happen to be lucky enough to me bar, and as he he had just joined the webmaster team, I believe, Brighton was one of his first talk
00:49:16.980 –> 00:49:23.070
Jamie Alberico: On and just had a really lovely time talking with the team and he will show up too bright in with our blue hair becomes
00:49:23.700 –> 00:49:33.780
00:49:34.380 –> 00:49:39.210
Jamie Alberico: Up to do this video me an amazing producer, your brother chance to meet and she’s on
00:49:40.110 –> 00:49:54.390
00:49:55.440 –> 00:49:59.940
Jamie Alberico: Getting our redesigned first place in 2014 we launched in 2015
00:50:04.620 –> 00:50:16.620
00:50:17.640 –> 00:50:20.970
Jacob Stoops: Still have a lot of trouble with crawling and I say,
00:50:21.000 –> 00:50:23.670
Jamie Alberico: 2014 when we got the project greenlight it took
00:50:24.360 –> 00:50:26.220
Jacob Stoops: He says to them, getting
00:50:26.280 –> 00:50:28.830
Jacob Stoops: Done SEO and 2014 so
00:50:29.160 –> 00:50:32.220
Jamie Alberico: No, no, we were rebuilding the site at that time and
00:50:32.580 –> 00:50:33.270
Jacob Stoops: Maybe a few weeks.
00:50:33.510 –> 00:50:38.610
Jamie Alberico: After Google announced they were deprecating the Ajax crawler the site went live
00:50:39.150 –> 00:50:39.510
00:50:40.560 –> 00:50:46.470
Jamie Alberico: I mean, we definitely did a plane SPACE MONKEY. Like, let’s see what happens. We actually called that project space party.
00:50:47.760 –> 00:50:59.970
Jacob Stoops: Nice. So, so with the with the public speaking, you guys. I feel like both do a fair amount of public speaking and or public moderating. What does that been like
00:51:02.580 –> 00:51:03.330
Ashley Berman Hale: Gary
00:51:06.930 –> 00:51:13.350
Ashley Berman Hale: So I man. I’m a bit of a reluctance speaker, and I’m very not polished, but I really like doing it.
00:51:14.100 –> 00:51:21.180
Ashley Berman Hale: Um, so, hashtag. If you’re, if you don’t have production level value conferences and you want to hang out and talk about cool things I’m game.
00:51:21.900 –> 00:51:30.210
Ashley Berman Hale: Um, but I use it as a way to personally push myself to go deeper into topics as well as just to make friends. So I’ve been working from home for 10 years
00:51:32.190 –> 00:51:35.520
Ashley Berman Hale: So I need to get out of the house, a couple times a year. So
00:51:35.520 –> 00:51:36.180
Jeff Louella: That was
00:51:36.300 –> 00:51:47.100
Ashley Berman Hale: So is pretty important. And then it’s just it’s a bit of a self challenge. So I had, I had a pretty bad speech impediment. As a kid, and took five years of speech therapy so
00:51:47.820 –> 00:51:53.340
Ashley Berman Hale: As a big fuck you to my jeans I decided to do more public speaking as a high school or an adult. So
00:51:53.820 –> 00:51:59.760
Ashley Berman Hale: Part of that is just a little personal renegade but it’s fun. I would love to say that more conferences, though.
00:52:00.330 –> 00:52:05.550
Ashley Berman Hale: Bring more people to present collaboratively like I love presenting with Jamie and with other people that I know.
00:52:06.450 –> 00:52:09.840
Ashley Berman Hale: It helps to get you more bang for your buck again that peer review and peer editing.
00:52:10.800 –> 00:52:19.680
Ashley Berman Hale: And moderating is also fantastic instead of having the same conference organizers. If you’re welcome have other people in the field. There’s just so many cool opportunities there so
00:52:20.160 –> 00:52:26.730
Ashley Berman Hale: Like I said, I’m not a natural speaker, I definitely get nervous. I am known to throw up either before or after or both.
00:52:26.790 –> 00:52:27.060
00:52:28.650 –> 00:52:39.630
Ashley Berman Hale: You just but I still enjoy doing it and really appreciate it opportunities, but it’s it’s wild. It’s weird right i mean i go straight social blackout when I’m up there. Well,
00:52:39.870 –> 00:52:43.500
Jeff Louella: Actually, you also started the rally SEO Meetup group right
00:52:43.560 –> 00:52:45.750
Ashley Berman Hale: Oh, you bring it back, Jeff.
00:52:46.470 –> 00:52:48.180
Jeff Louella: Well, I mean, to go from not being
00:52:48.210 –> 00:52:55.260
Jeff Louella: Liking to speak to starting, you know, the largest Meetup group about SEO. That’s kind of like
00:52:55.530 –> 00:52:57.510
Jeff Louella: I’m jealous that I don’t live in Raleigh, sometimes
00:52:58.920 –> 00:53:03.300
Jeff Louella: I make it up there a couple times, you know, during the conferences and things like that. But at the same time.
00:53:04.080 –> 00:53:13.920
Jeff Louella: The community here, there seems really awesome. And it seems like anyone. It’s like a lot of helping each other grow and and it seems like an awesome community that’s
00:53:14.520 –> 00:53:23.580
Jeff Louella: You know, where we have people like Jr and Patrick and and you know every time I go or see anyone there. I’m like, wow, you all live in Raleigh, like how Raleigh become
00:53:24.150 –> 00:53:33.870
Ashley Berman Hale: Thing. Okay, so I will tell you that is one of my proudest moments. Um, I guess I’m like a little bit of a mama by heart, even though I’m not, I should not be left alone to raise any children but
00:53:34.860 –> 00:53:45.030
Ashley Berman Hale: It was when I was so I had moved to North Carolina after my father and my brother had died and decided on a fresh start moved to a place I never knew and
00:53:46.500 –> 00:53:53.100
Ashley Berman Hale: I just convince my boss to let me use his office space to maybe try to get a few people together off hours to talk about this stuff.
00:53:54.030 –> 00:54:10.500
Ashley Berman Hale: And luckily for me. I was like, do you want to own it. And he said, No, go ahead, which was pretty awesome. But the first local. So here the first rally SEO meetup was definitely in the single digits. And I made homemade pies to try and bribe people to show up, um,
00:54:11.790 –> 00:54:18.090
Ashley Berman Hale: So it started out very, very small. But it was a really, really cool way to develop speaking skills for me.
00:54:18.390 –> 00:54:24.780
Ashley Berman Hale: But also to try to influence the market, a little bit like I told you I took a big long break from SEO because it was a little sticky so back then. I was
00:54:25.290 –> 00:54:35.130
Ashley Berman Hale: On a little bit more of a rampage of kindness. So I made it free and I made sure that they were different types for all levels that they were takeaways and actionable insights and that
00:54:35.670 –> 00:54:42.540
Ashley Berman Hale: All I was trying to do was enable local businesses to either do the work themselves or to know enough to be able to hire without liability.
00:54:43.080 –> 00:54:57.690
Ashley Berman Hale: And that sucker grew. I mean we out group at times. I was just begging businesses like hey, if I can get everyone to buy a beer. Can I, you know, hang out in this corner of your bar for an hour tonight and also if no one’s going to buy beer. I’ll just buy them all. It’s fine.
00:54:58.860 –> 00:55:07.650
Ashley Berman Hale: But it it grew and grew quickly and I can be a little anti social by nature. And so I had a partner after the first year to come and fill Buckley
00:55:08.430 –> 00:55:16.230
Ashley Berman Hale: Who is part of that like Patrick jr group. I think he’s a little header IBM. He’s fantastic but he is a social butterfly so
00:55:16.680 –> 00:55:23.670
Ashley Berman Hale: It was another situation where it couldn’t have been the way it did without partnering with somebody. So sharing is caring and what a cool way to start off
00:55:24.090 –> 00:55:28.740
Ashley Berman Hale: You know, my professional SEO career and kind of restarted after feeling like the industry was a little sad.
00:55:29.340 –> 00:55:39.570
Ashley Berman Hale: But I you know I left it in good hands and they’ve continued to do awesome things and I actually got to go back last year to speak for the 10 year anniversary how how rad, is that it’s like my babies in the double digits.
00:55:40.230 –> 00:55:45.270
Jamie Alberico: It’s awesome rampage of kindness is the most on brand thing I’ve ever heard.
00:55:46.740 –> 00:55:55.110
Ashley Berman Hale: That, that’s good. That’s all right, I got a t shirt rampage of kindness that goes along with them. The relentlessly casual label, I, I also appreciate
00:55:55.410 –> 00:56:07.650
Jacob Stoops: There’s an old at iOS or videos at video game believe called rampage. You should just steal that logo and close rampage of kindness and there you go. You got your own t shirt brand.
00:56:07.890 –> 00:56:10.950
Ashley Berman Hale: Cool, Jacob. Now I’m not going to get any work done today. I blame you.
00:56:10.950 –> 00:56:14.160
Jamie Alberico: Go discounted work branding and work.
00:56:18.900 –> 00:56:25.800
Jacob Stoops: Oh man, I’m so deep crawl, I’d be remiss to not talk about deep crawl. What’s it. What’s it like working the depot.
00:56:26.220 –> 00:56:37.950
Ashley Berman Hale: Ship date is the best I’m you know I’m optimistic but not naive. So, but I left a couple jobs, one that was a really toxic environment, one that was
00:56:38.550 –> 00:56:45.270
Ashley Berman Hale: Great, but just not the best fit. And I was feeling really low on my capabilities to feel like a productive you know employable human being.
00:56:46.140 –> 00:56:53.580
Ashley Berman Hale: And deep called crowd grabbed me and I will tell you I have had so much joy working here with the people that I work with the software.
00:56:54.330 –> 00:57:00.540
Ashley Berman Hale: And just the flexibility to learn so deep crawls uh you know it’s a software. It’s a crawler enterprise level. So it’s like
00:57:01.080 –> 00:57:15.330
Ashley Berman Hale: It’s a lot like Screaming Frog who are amazing people that make a great product, but it’s sort of on steroids, so you’re able to grab historic data crawl in the cloud trend everything. And there’s just a ton of ways to define the data and filter right within the tool.
00:57:15.750 –> 00:57:17.400
Jacob Stoops: It also does it on your computer.
00:57:18.570 –> 00:57:25.410
Ashley Berman Hale: It doesn’t shut down your computer because it’s like, you know, your fan won’t even get hot. So that’s, you know, big selling point
00:57:26.070 –> 00:57:32.250
Ashley Berman Hale: But it’s just a fun tool it’s it’s really interesting. I’ve really enjoyed working here, I would say if anyone hasn’t tried it.
00:57:32.700 –> 00:57:39.960
Ashley Berman Hale: Just ping me I would be happy to run across from you and you can poke around obviously not a salesperson because I’m really into giving it away for free but
00:57:40.710 –> 00:57:48.960
Ashley Berman Hale: I mean there’s cool data. So if you ever want me to run a sample crawl kick it over. I’m happy to do so you can, yeah, if anyone wants to bug me on Twitter. That’s probably the best place.
00:57:49.230 –> 00:57:57.600
Jeff Louella: In the cross seems to have been, you know, I guess the one of the first like SAS platforms to start hiring SEOs, you know, and I see now.
00:57:58.050 –> 00:58:01.050
Jeff Louella: You know, now you’re going to be competing against Patrick because he went over to
00:58:01.680 –> 00:58:12.480
Jeff Louella: H refs. But in general, they’re like, it seems deep crawl like this, the knowledge base has really grown, which is which is great. Like the articles or webinars or something. I look forward to every time they get launched
00:58:12.570 –> 00:58:17.640
Ashley Berman Hale: Oh my gosh, what a smart team, right. So first of all, I could meet Patrick and an arm wrestle so
00:58:17.700 –> 00:58:19.320
Ashley Berman Hale: I’m not right, but
00:58:20.520 –> 00:58:26.790
Ashley Berman Hale: But I might team is really great. The marketing team does a lot of crazy cool stuff so mean, everyone knows like Sam and Rachel and Jen and
00:58:27.240 –> 00:58:34.380
Ashley Berman Hale: Those are people who aren’t traditional SEOs and they’re smarter than most people I know, like they are awesome. My team we’re professional services team.
00:58:35.250 –> 00:58:43.440
Ashley Berman Hale: There’s six or seven of us, depending on the day but also hiring. So if you’re a crazy fabulous curious tech SEO and you want to work with me, which
00:58:43.950 –> 00:58:54.060
Ashley Berman Hale: Godspeed but ping me there too. So the company’s doing well. They just went through Series B funding and I’m just excited to work with more fantastic people, but they’ve really done something special.
00:58:54.510 –> 00:59:04.530
Ashley Berman Hale: In terms of priority to prioritizing data and good things for clients as well as making a really, really fantastic team and hiring obviously humble people right so that’s great.
00:59:06.240 –> 00:59:12.600
Jamie Alberico: So you guys always have a sandwich for me and you guys always have the Chargers that I forgot plane somewhere.
00:59:13.740 –> 00:59:14.280
Jamie Alberico: On a T.
00:59:14.700 –> 00:59:28.140
Ashley Berman Hale: Shirt and Casey spell something like you have like the most. I don’t know. Hearing a material company like we will take care of anyone. So again, if you’re ever curious whether it’s job right here on my site for free, like just paying us for a helpful group.
00:59:28.830 –> 00:59:29.760
Jamie Alberico: Very good human
00:59:30.300 –> 00:59:32.670
Ashley Berman Hale: With sandwiches with sandwiches.
00:59:34.200 –> 00:59:39.390
Jacob Stoops: Oh so want to make sure we’re respectful of time I
00:59:40.440 –> 00:59:52.740
Jacob Stoops: Don’t think we’re gonna have time for news. I think we’re, we’re probably not going to, because we’ve had such wonderful conversation that is flowing. So naturally I don’t think we’re going to deep dive into technical SEO. I think we’ve talked
00:59:54.180 –> 00:59:59.580
Jacob Stoops: Quite enough. I did want to talk about a few more few more things before we wrap up the episode.
01:00:00.240 –> 01:00:13.140
Jacob Stoops: But because you guys have been so awesome to talk to. It’s been one of our most free flowing conversation. So I definitely, definitely. Thank you guys for that. It’s been really good, really good conversation.
01:00:14.640 –> 01:00:27.540
Jacob Stoops: Um, you guys have mentioned several times and I agree. I’ve noticed it. I, I sometimes choose not to take part, because I have a lot of my own thoughts, but you’ve mentioned the
01:00:29.100 –> 01:00:43.830
Jacob Stoops: The level of discourse in the in the industry over probably the last five to five to 10 years and I don’t know. I think I’ve noticed it as well, getting getting better, but it had gotten
01:00:44.910 –> 01:00:54.360
Jacob Stoops: A lot of it’s centered around conferences and whatnot, but it had gotten pretty toxic and pretty nasty there for for a little while. So I was wondering if y’all could
01:00:55.290 –> 01:01:07.020
Jacob Stoops: Talk a little bit about that and why you think it’s maybe gotten a little bit better. Over the course of the last, I don’t know, I feel like maybe the last year, maybe, maybe I’m overshooting that I don’t know but
01:01:07.470 –> 01:01:14.370
Jacob Stoops: I felt it also being really bad and then getting a little bit better. But I don’t know if you guys could talk about that a little bit.
01:01:17.670 –> 01:01:27.000
Ashley Berman Hale: Yeah, I’m awesome well know, Jamie. You go first because I, yeah, I got to the end of something and I pretend like I’ve been drinking a whole time and I will just eat up all the time here.
01:01:28.320 –> 01:01:29.640
Jamie Alberico: But I love listening to your story.
01:01:30.150 –> 01:01:31.320
Jamie Alberico: very articulate and
01:01:31.410 –> 01:01:47.220
Jamie Alberico: You know you’ve always been a great mentor for me and this kind of scenario. I honestly can say I’ve been very lucky and I’ve only really been met with kindness from people at these conferences and support. I like to think perhaps that
01:01:48.240 –> 01:01:54.990
Jamie Alberico: I try and bring up there as well. But there’s no critic of really going to be as harsh as my internal one
01:01:55.440 –> 01:02:08.850
Jamie Alberico: So I think keeping her quiet on focused on when I’m there to do maybe take it away from me and giving attention to some of these more interesting moments that I hear about after the fact.
01:02:10.290 –> 01:02:14.580
Jamie Alberico: I haven’t been the first chance I can speak to a new the kerfuffle
01:02:16.620 –> 01:02:25.890
Ashley Berman Hale: Yeah, and I mean events bring their own level of potential toxicity, the industry and of itself has been a little tough to. So I’ve been in it for about 15 ish years maybe a little more
01:02:26.790 –> 01:02:39.300
Ashley Berman Hale: Um, and I did a lot of volunteer work and forums, that’s how I got that’s how I got started in a lot of it and forums can be a really awful, awful place to be, especially if you’re an idiot and just use your regular name Ashley’s everyone knows you’re a girl.
01:02:41.370 –> 01:02:42.600
Jamie Alberico: Was true man.
01:02:43.230 –> 01:02:45.360
Jamie Alberico: I’m not ever gave me with an androgynous name.
01:02:45.480 –> 01:02:51.300
Ashley Berman Hale: I know that so nice. Um, but it is, it’s been bad, but I think in a lot of the ways it’s getting better.
01:02:51.810 –> 01:02:57.570
Ashley Berman Hale: I just want to call out that, you know, I come from a place of privilege, even though it can be tough to be in tech as a woman.
01:02:58.380 –> 01:03:06.960
Ashley Berman Hale: I am already five steps ahead of some other folks, especially people of color LGBT Q that are out like there’s there’s a stiffness there and
01:03:07.470 –> 01:03:14.850
Ashley Berman Hale: I would really like it to be more fluid where people can come in and present and there’s a focus on ideas. I think we are getting there. I think we have warmed the ground so much
01:03:15.450 –> 01:03:23.370
Ashley Berman Hale: And I think that I can be a bit spicy unintentionally and very clumsy with my calls to try and make things a little bit more better and inclusive.
01:03:23.820 –> 01:03:33.150
Ashley Berman Hale: But for the most part people have been very generous and forgiving in terms of how I approach that and it spawns some really good conversations so
01:03:34.020 –> 01:03:40.140
Ashley Berman Hale: I think we’re getting better and a lot of ways, and I hope to keep saying encouragement in that way. I will see say that
01:03:41.100 –> 01:03:48.900
Ashley Berman Hale: There’s one conference in particular that is really great for me in terms of seeing that as the NGA Atlanta conference to Angular Atlanta conference where
01:03:49.560 –> 01:03:57.930
Ashley Berman Hale: The founder there works hard to make all majority women or people of color and especially women of color speakers without repeating speakers. It’s pretty fantastic.
01:03:59.010 –> 01:04:07.350
Ashley Berman Hale: And it takes a lot of work, like the organizer Zach will be there to tell you, it takes a lot of work to advise any other events, but he’ll tell you that the work is worth it. So,
01:04:08.070 –> 01:04:14.910
Ashley Berman Hale: We’re getting better. I’d like to push a little harder in that area. So leave with kindness, but also psychological safety for everyone to
01:04:16.620 –> 01:04:27.870
Jacob Stoops: Yeah, I agree. And having been so I’ll just, I’ll just come right out with it. I am I dislike conferences and it’s partly because I’m anti social
01:04:28.770 –> 01:04:40.290
Jacob Stoops: A little bit. Although I can be social. But I you know I get uncomfortable and nervous in large groups of people. And so that makes a conference for me not very cool.
01:04:43.260 –> 01:04:47.100
Jacob Stoops: I’m like, I’m just really bad at small talk, and like literally
01:04:47.700 –> 01:05:03.390
Jacob Stoops: It makes me sweat just thinking of having to small talk. Not that I don’t like. I like people just fine. But like in large settings. I always feel super, super awkward, which means just by definition conferences are just not my thing.
01:05:04.650 –> 01:05:17.340
Jacob Stoops: But then there’s also, you know, what types of things go on at conferences with respect to harassment and the way people act towards each other and the, the lack of kindness.
01:05:18.510 –> 01:05:23.700
Jacob Stoops: I’ve run. And I don’t know if you have you guys ever heard the term conference circuit SEO.
01:05:24.840 –> 01:05:25.650
Jacob Stoops: Is that a new thing.
01:05:25.680 –> 01:05:32.940
Jamie Alberico: Yes, I turned out on leave, and I understand you correctly or first do the kind of repeating
01:05:33.360 –> 01:05:33.600
Jacob Stoops: Yeah.
01:05:33.960 –> 01:05:37.980
Jamie Alberico: There’s a couple of key speakers, they tend to get things paid for, you’ve got other people
01:05:38.640 –> 01:05:39.420
Jacob Stoops: Yes.
01:05:39.450 –> 01:05:50.250
Jamie Alberico: Please go to our last represented in our community. And it’s very real that a lot of venues are going to charge money, a lot of money for these tickets and and don’t even pay for the speakers.
01:05:51.630 –> 01:05:52.500
Jacob Stoops: Right, right.
01:05:52.920 –> 01:05:53.820
Jamie Alberico: Very prohibitive.
01:05:54.360 –> 01:05:55.530
Jacob Stoops: There are
01:05:56.730 –> 01:06:08.670
Jacob Stoops: In I’m definitely not trying to lump. Anybody, anybody into this but this story for me is very, very specific to some people that I’ve worked with who
01:06:09.420 –> 01:06:17.430
Jacob Stoops: Were what I call a quote unquote on the conference circuit which means they went to and spoke at a lot of conferences and were looked up to by
01:06:17.850 –> 01:06:28.080
Jacob Stoops: A lot of people as subject matter experts. But then when it came time for them to actually work with me together on certain accounts.
01:06:28.800 –> 01:06:38.310
Jacob Stoops: I found that they fell very, very flat in terms of my expectation of their level of quality and what I actually got from them.
01:06:39.060 –> 01:06:51.840
Jacob Stoops: So that has left me with a little bit of a bad taste in my, in my mouth with respect to what I’ll call certain conference circuit SEO. So just in general conferences are
01:06:52.860 –> 01:07:00.000
Jacob Stoops: Not my favorite thing. But what I have enjoyed seeing recently is the increased focus on
01:07:01.260 –> 01:07:11.940
Jacob Stoops: One acting better treating people better and hopefully fewer instances of harassment. I know women, definitely go through
01:07:12.600 –> 01:07:21.780
Jacob Stoops: A lot and I feel like I’ve never been like Jamie, just like you said, it’s always for me been second hand. I feel like every man definitely knows
01:07:22.110 –> 01:07:27.300
Jacob Stoops: Of a woman who has experienced some sort of sexual harassment. But for me, I’ve never
01:07:27.780 –> 01:07:33.780
Jacob Stoops: It’s never been something I’ve witnessed or anything like that. So I’m always only hearing about it secondhand and I’m less than
01:07:34.470 –> 01:07:50.220
Jacob Stoops: Less than aware of when that that type of thing might be happening. If I were aware. I would definitely definitely speak up. So I’m I feel like sometimes in a bit of an awkward position of wanting to speak up and being supportive but ever being like Johnny on the spot for when an event.
01:07:51.300 –> 01:07:55.350
Jacob Stoops: Happens or transpires so little bit of an awkward awkward.
01:07:56.490 –> 01:08:07.890
Jacob Stoops: Position and I would say so obviously that needs to get better. I don’t know how much that is still going on. But I know it was pretty pervasive in the past and super unfortunate.
01:08:08.430 –> 01:08:18.240
Jacob Stoops: The other thing that I’m really enjoying is the emphasis on speaker balance. I, I, I have a hard time when I see
01:08:19.710 –> 01:08:26.730
Jacob Stoops: An SEO team at a company that is entirely and I’ve experienced this a lot in the past entirely male dominated
01:08:27.540 –> 01:08:31.710
Jamie Alberico: Yeah, they’re celebrating hiring the first female CEO and a team in 2019
01:08:32.400 –> 01:08:34.080
Jamie Alberico: I mean that’s an incredibly sad.
01:08:34.440 –> 01:08:39.810
Jacob Stoops: Yeah, it’s it’s really sad. And I have a hard time with conferences where I look at the
01:08:40.200 –> 01:08:49.350
Jacob Stoops: The speaker lineup and I don’t see a picture of somebody with color. I don’t see a picture of somebody who’s female or you see it, but there’s not nearly enough balance so
01:08:50.070 –> 01:08:58.680
Jacob Stoops: Not something that I think is, is a good thing. And something that I think is trending in the right direction. I don’t think it’s entirely there.
01:08:59.220 –> 01:09:10.920
Jacob Stoops: But I would like to see more more conferences and more companies strive for that balance and not balance for the sake of balance but balance because you really believe
01:09:11.760 –> 01:09:19.470
Jacob Stoops: That that those those people and I’m definitely one of the privileged people really bring value in a different perspective.
01:09:19.920 –> 01:09:27.480
Jacob Stoops: Not just hiring or booking because you need a certain ratio, right. So that’s something that I’m hoping
01:09:28.110 –> 01:09:37.260
Jacob Stoops: Gets a little bit better. But again, as I’ve said before, because I’m kind of an outside observer. I don’t choose to go to a lot of conferences.
01:09:37.950 –> 01:09:48.600
Jacob Stoops: I’m more kind of I feel like routing from the sidelines and trying to push where where I can in my areas of influence which are which are a few outside of my own house so
01:09:50.340 –> 01:10:06.330
Jamie Alberico: I ok here is because that one for me first one I totally understanding the lack of comfort being around that many people I’ve been asked how I seem to to come on stage and my secret ready guys years of practice with a panic disorder.
01:10:06.780 –> 01:10:09.210
Jamie Alberico: Like I have learned how to have a heart attack feel like
01:10:09.210 –> 01:10:18.750
Jamie Alberico: Even the Rolodex prices on keep a calm state so repurpose if you if you’ve been through that you think of it as reclaiming and repurposing all those years of practice.
01:10:19.770 –> 01:10:25.410
Jamie Alberico: And secondly, there are now more groups out here who are advocating to get their women together a presentation together.
01:10:25.710 –> 01:10:33.690
Jamie Alberico: If you are a winless there are used one support women in tech SEO, there is a women in tech SEO Slack channel you can find them on Twitter and on Facebook.
01:10:34.020 –> 01:10:44.190
Jamie Alberico: Joining that conversation. I know some really great conferences coming up that have reached out to them to try and help balance out our speakers find people who are representing very skilled
01:10:45.330 –> 01:10:48.630
Jamie Alberico: Technologies to be on stage and present from their perspective.
01:10:49.800 –> 01:10:53.880
Ashley Berman Hale: Yeah. And if you’re a sweet guy like maybe instead of accepting the panel.
01:10:54.420 –> 01:11:03.210
Ashley Berman Hale: Or accepting the speaking gig. Why don’t you recommend somebody else make it easier on the event organizers because they always say they can’t. But I guarantee there’s someone around you.
01:11:03.870 –> 01:11:08.190
Ashley Berman Hale: Who may be a first time or second time speaker, but has really incredible things to say.
01:11:08.670 –> 01:11:14.670
Ashley Berman Hale: Because I think if you speak too much often you’re missing out on that constant learning that you need in order to stay on top of the industry.
01:11:15.330 –> 01:11:19.290
Ashley Berman Hale: Or if you’re never speaking, then you’re missing out on an opportunity to find in your craft so
01:11:20.070 –> 01:11:29.610
Ashley Berman Hale: It’s great that some people will have reached that pinnacle, and they are trusted and loved and everyone likes to see them speak but it means nothing. If you don’t turn around and homework, you know, two more people up.
01:11:29.640 –> 01:11:31.110
Jeff Louella: So I would say share the spotlight.
01:11:31.590 –> 01:11:43.800
Ashley Berman Hale: And I don’t have a huge network or you know much influence but if anyone out there who hasn’t spoken before wants to speak. If I could put you in contact with anyone or any conference. Like, I’m happy to help.
01:11:44.850 –> 01:11:49.380
Ashley Berman Hale: Said, I don’t have a ton of influence, but I’m willing to use it to just get more voices up there. We should all do that.
01:11:51.150 –> 01:11:59.730
Jeff Louella: Yeah, it’s funny. I’ve been working on a little side project where I’ve downloaded the titles of every SEO speech.
01:12:00.840 –> 01:12:11.280
Jeff Louella: By the last like two years. And my goal was, I was going to try to make like a SEO speech generator that just put out a topic because that’s one of the things when I
01:12:12.120 –> 01:12:25.440
Jeff Louella: Think about doing any type of speaking. I’m like, what am I going to talk about that no one else is talking about. So I was like, hey, and I can want to play with AI and machine learning. I was like, maybe I can make a generator just generates topics. And here’s your next speech.
01:12:26.970 –> 01:12:28.020
Jamie Alberico: I would love to see this.
01:12:28.230 –> 01:12:42.330
Jeff Louella: Play. Yeah, it was kind of gonna be tongue in cheek, because I just wanted to like I wanted to be bad AI to so it made it funny but so that is in the works. It’s. But one thing I noticed was when I would Dee doop. There were a lot
01:12:43.350 –> 01:12:48.930
Jeff Louella: So that was one of the things that were there was a lot of that was like duplicate on air and it made me really think like
01:12:50.100 –> 01:12:56.220
Jeff Louella: You know, going and a lot of it might have been like the digital summits, where people travel and do the same presentation all across the country.
01:12:56.940 –> 01:13:03.090
Jeff Louella: But there were a lot of like the same things we were talking about and that’s one thing with the tech SEO boost conference.
01:13:03.450 –> 01:13:13.530
Jeff Louella: It was like something totally different copy way off guard. Because even last year, maybe a Catalan or one person talked about AI or machine learning and Python and this year was 80% of the people.
01:13:14.130 –> 01:13:24.450
Jeff Louella: Which which was was pretty interesting. But in general, I love the, you know, I want to go out and talk a little bit more, but I really love to do it more in the local level and trying to
01:13:25.080 –> 01:13:30.840
Jeff Louella: There’s not a huge SEO community here in Atlanta. So something I’d like to start to put together and build out
01:13:33.660 –> 01:13:47.100
Jeff Louella: But what I’m just kind of like to end the show just kind of asking a certain question and just kind of advice like if you were someone who was starting off in the SEO world right now. What kind of advice would you give someone who is starting out.
01:13:52.440 –> 01:14:03.840
Ashley Berman Hale: I’m yeah I’m used to always jumping in first here so I’m cognizant of that. I’m sorry. I would just say stay curious and stay kind, um, that’s it.
01:14:04.770 –> 01:14:06.720
Jeff Louella: That that’s just a range of kindness.
01:14:07.500 –> 01:14:08.340
Ashley Berman Hale: Yeah.
01:14:08.370 –> 01:14:10.110
Jamie Alberico: Well, I am page the kindness.
01:14:10.560 –> 01:14:18.720
Ashley Berman Hale: Yes, a rampage of kindness, please. And I have this, uh, this is kind of gross, but I’ve been a professional coaching and stuff like that, where they say hey,
01:14:19.230 –> 01:14:27.180
Ashley Berman Hale: Create a tagline for yourself. And that sounds a little silly, but I have one. And I’ve been using it for over a decade and it’s it’s really done me well and
01:14:27.690 –> 01:14:42.000
Ashley Berman Hale: My personal tagline is stupid work. So that means a lot of different things to me. But part of that is just staying curious and you know being nice to people and figuring out where you can help rather than stand on the shoulders of others. So whatever you do, do good work.
01:14:42.780 –> 01:14:43.860
Jeff Louella: Awesome. What do you think, Jamie.
01:14:46.950 –> 01:14:57.480
Jamie Alberico: I would say that there are no dumb questions engineering a room where you only understand and 20 week of what’s going on. That’s okay. I’ll take notes.
01:14:58.350 –> 01:15:06.690
Jamie Alberico: Ask for the handle. What do you mean by this word, particularly in technology. I have some English. I’m looking in bed with dev teams like stocks.
01:15:07.500 –> 01:15:18.060
Jamie Alberico: And people use different words, getting the same thing on half of our value of SEO is being able to map up those synonyms and translate between these teams.
01:15:18.420 –> 01:15:24.420
Jamie Alberico: Isn’t the end. We all want to make good things. We all have this desire to those good things to be found and
01:15:24.840 –> 01:15:39.450
Jamie Alberico: This is how we get there is by being willing to be humble and say, I don’t understand what that means. Could you explain it. Just keep learning. Even when it hurts your head and you crying about the install
01:15:41.850 –> 01:15:48.480
Ashley Berman Hale: So many times I’ve like cried, and I’m like, I don’t understand. And then an hour later I’ll be like, holy shit, I figured it out like
01:15:48.840 –> 01:15:55.590
Jamie Alberico: Yeah, it’s a crime, and it certainly feels worth it. Like you’re just hitting the wall heading the law hitting a woman suddenly and make sense and it’s beautiful.
01:15:56.190 –> 01:15:57.150
Jamie Alberico: Yes, and have a
01:15:57.270 –> 01:15:57.810
01:15:58.890 –> 01:16:01.590
Jamie Alberico: I think tech SEOs walk that line between the
01:16:02.820 –> 01:16:03.960
Jamie Alberico: Federal ambition.
01:16:08.970 –> 01:16:14.760
Ashley Berman Hale: Yeah, oh yeah, she is sorry last thought. Don’t be afraid to ask them questions. All right. I promise I’m done talking. Yeah.
01:16:17.430 –> 01:16:34.710
Jeff Louella: Awesome. Well, we’d love to thank you for coming on the show me, I think, is such great conversation that we had, I feel that you two together. It was it was a great idea. And we’re trying to put you separately, but I think together me. It was just awesome and made the conversation flow better
01:16:35.010 –> 01:16:35.970
Jacob Stoops: Dynamic Duo
01:16:36.600 –> 01:16:37.320
01:16:38.850 –> 01:16:39.270
Jacob Stoops: Alright.
01:16:39.750 –> 01:16:40.230
Jeff Louella: So my
01:16:40.560 –> 01:16:41.250
Jamie Alberico: Life, mate.
01:16:41.670 –> 01:16:45.330
Ashley Berman Hale: Yes, I love you very much. Jamie, it’s good to have a way
01:16:45.360 –> 01:16:45.990
Jamie Alberico: Of you to bed.
01:16:47.760 –> 01:16:48.750
Jacob Stoops: All right, bye guys
01:16:50.400 –> 01:16:50.970
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