#26: Season 2 Intro

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Episode summary

We introduce the new co-host Jeff Louella, Jake talks about what he learned in Season 1 and what to expect in Season 2, and we even react to some SEO current events.

Full Audio Transcript

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Hey everybody this is Jacob Stoops and I am back back with season two of the page to podcast and I must admit, it was a little bit arbitrary

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To decide to end and Season one, but I felt like 25 episodes were enough. I felt like I needed a little bit of a break in between. And I felt like definitely needed that break to to really rethink

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One whether or not it was worth kind of continuing and to to kind of reorganize a lot of stuff. But I think the biggest cat that I wanted to let out of the bag is that I have now a co host somebody joining me and that man’s name is Jeff Louella. How’s it going, Jeff.

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Hey everybody. How you doing, Everything’s going good over here.

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Dude, thanks for thanks for agreeing to come on. So for those of you that

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That didn’t listen to Jeff’s interview, Jeff, just tell everybody about yourself.

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Awesome. I’ll give you the, the shorter version if you want a longer version, you can go back and listen to that episode but you want

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Awesome. So, um, I’ve been kind of working in and around the yes i guess the internet industry will say early on. So back in the early 90s.

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I actually helped build my Community College website. It was a class that taught you how to do HTML and the same idea was that class was going to build that community colleges websites so

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So that’s where I kind of gotten into just like learning about the internet doing HTML, things like that.

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Kind of was one of the only people had Photoshop back then. I’m not gonna say if it was legal or not, but I had it.

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And that made me a web designer, by default, because I knew how to do some HTML and cut up some things from Photoshop so made me a web designer.

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But actually, one of the main reasons I wanted to learn how to do the web is I was a DJ. And I wanted to promote my music and

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DJ stuff. So I really got more into the real audio aspect of things doing real audio streams and and things like that actually got a job and doing kind of front end development and design, but also got to do some real audio streaming for some off or off track betting

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Besides the DJ

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DJ Jazzy Jeff.

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Nah, I was my DJ name was Mickey, which has kind of been a name. I’ve had since I was a younger that moved up

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And, you know, jumping ahead. It’s my can I do some FP FP TV drone racing stuff. And that’s my name there too so

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But back then, um, you know, Internet stunk. Like it was everyone had dial up and things like that. So my wonderful idea of having like an online radio station.

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Today would actually have worked well. Now there’s a million of them, but back then it was really hard to get people to, you know, if I had 10 people on my stream. It was like dying, the stream it so

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But used all that knowledge you mostly moved into front end development. Once I learned that designers real designers, I came out of school doing design were way better than me.

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And they, you know, they started getting into the web. It was great there, but as a front end developer, I was really pushing things like accessibility and web standards, trying to get people out of

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Table based designs into using modern HTML, CSS, JavaScript, your presentation layer type of things.

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From there, though, you know, there was accessibility was not a great business it’s catching on these days. But back then, it’s like if I’m not being sued. I’m not going to do it though SEO has a lot of the same things right. Google is the largest blind user on the internet. So we get to

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A lot of things would do for SEO. I still in my head. Think of it as an accessibility angle of things and

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While I’m not necessarily looking to optimize a form right now for accessibility. But a lot of the other standards, making it easier to read for crawlers, and for screen readers really help out that way. So,

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But today. I’ve been doing SEO about 12 years ish mostly focus on a lot of the technical and backend things of SEO, though at whatever you throw at me. I will do

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But currently at search discovery, I moved into a platform engineer role where I still do SEO, but I’m working a lot more on analytics and implementations and

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Tag management type of software.

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So one of the reasons that I i thought Jeff would be an amazing fit on this podcast. I think one selfishly like it takes a lot to run a podcast I like

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This started off as like a hey, I’m going to start a podcast, because I think it would be a cool idea. And because, like, for me, it’s just like

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I’ve always had a creative itch, whether it’s tinkering around on my, on my website or

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You know editing video doing Photoshop. I don’t know. I’ve always had like a creative, it should I kind of enjoyed doing this kind of stuff. So podcast was a way in, especially with the way kind of new media is is is going podcast is the new blogging right

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Anyways, so it allowed me to to scratch that creative itch, but there’s so much that goes into it from

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From actually figuring out, like, what the hell do I want to podcast even about like what do I want to talk about who would listen to

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Do I have an idea worth listening to. In once you like figure out. I think I do. Okay, well what format do I want to use what software do I use to edit what software do I use to capture the audio. Once I capture it.

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How do I edit. How do I put everything together. How do I go book guests. Do I need a website, do I need to do social media and like it just goes on from there and it quickly spirals out of control.

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So selfishly, I was looking for someone to help carry that burden, who is just as passionate about one being creative and kind of scratching that itch, but also to SEO.

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Just as passionate as as me. And I think the other thing is there. I think there are two other things, one

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I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned a person’s name in the industry where Jeff hasn’t known them.

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Either either like Ben like a loose colleague or like if met or talked with them or is like friends with them. I really don’t think that there’s anybody that Jeff has has has

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Has it known to the fact where I almost kind of like make fun of it now because it kind of cracks cracks me up because he seems to know everybody

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But I thought that that would be really beneficial in terms of just opening opening up avenues to to find and talk to more really smart people to this to this point, it had been

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It had been me tapping friends and colleagues on the shoulder and and lightly twisting their arm and saying, Come on my podcast.

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Or it had been me just blindly reaching out to people that I that I didn’t know, in many cases, and almost like a cold call

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Saying I come on my podcast with those people having no clue who I was and I wouldn’t say that I’m well known at all. So,

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No clue what to what to expect. Most of them seem to enjoy it, which is good, but I think Jeff’s network is amazing and then Jeff like he didn’t mention it.

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Dude is super interesting. He does, he flies in builds drones. You do. You’ve got an X you’ve built a frickin X throwing range in your backyard.

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You 3D printing, you know, through your own, I believe, whiskey, right.

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Yeah, well,

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You do like everything

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Not everything

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But having a brood of kids as well to manage. I don’t know how you do it. Yeah.

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It’s a, you know, you just give the kids iPads, and then is now. I’m kidding. They are it is

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It is fun. We I’m looking now that my kids are a little older. So it’s there. They just go outside and play and play with the kids in the neighborhood, which is great.

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Yeah, I do. I like have a I love hobbies. I love learning new things, whether it’s, you know, SEO web development, things like that.

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I’ve been focusing a lot on like the work life balance and part of the life part is just having a little, a little more fun and

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Took up you know SPV drone. I don’t race. I do freestyle, but it’s the same drone setup, but you build them customize them.

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Know the program on but you gotta tune them to the fly with it really well and you throw in some goggles and it feels like you’re

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You know, jet fighter pilot, which is starting experience that I’ve never really had right so it’s like being able to fly a toy around at 80 miles an hour. It’s, it’s pretty fun doing it.

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You forgot to mention I’m a professional athlete. Now, since I joined a cornhole League.

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That’s right. Well, amateur. It’s the one one athletic aspect I can hold a beer and play a game. At the same time, and call myself an athlete’s

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Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, so you’re way more interesting than I am, you know way more people and I need needed somebody to help so welcome.

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Welcome to drive me

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Know I’m excited. I think

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You know, I want to talk a little bit more about like what did I learn or what were the good things about you know what occurred in season one, but I’m definitely excited to have another

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Another voice and and somebody else to contribute to the conversation because believe it or not, like, it feels like a lot of pressure when you have two people on driving the conversation all the time. And believe it or not. That is not my forte, not my forte.

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Totally. I mean, from when I used to do DJ like I had a always had a goal to be on the radio. And I went, I actually worked for a

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Couple radio stations as an intern and it quickly made me not want to work in traditional radio because

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You are the internet in it when you’re there you’re getting coffee, you’re cleaning all the consoles, no one who’s on the air really wants to talk to you at least back then I actually there was the stations. There were sister stations and one was a talk radio station with rush limbaugh

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Which was super interesting because he was this very

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You tell them that that would be interesting there, but their sister station was a POP Station which I was like, great. I can get on to this. But as I said just working for six months as an intern really made me hate doing that. So I’ve always had to dream and then now that podcaster out

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It is a lot of work to get one setup and the beauty of this position that I’m in now is that you did all that hard work already so that

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You’re right.

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But it’s actually like okay I’m complaining about all the hard work, it’s actually not that hard, like I’m not freaking amateur. It’s not like I’m like

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Running a radio station or anything like I’ve got a computer. I’ve got a decent microphone setup and that’s it. Like you just have to like have

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Some editing software, a lot of glitches free or very cheap and you just have to understand like the distribution platforms and everything that goes into that. And honestly, it’s not that hard.

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Once you figure that out and you have something worthwhile to to talk about. So it i mean

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Don’t get me wrong, there is and I think I’ve talked. I talked about this, and one of the episodes about setting up a podcast, like there is a lot that goes into it but like the barrier to entry is as low as it’s ever been. And it’s getting

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Getting lower anyways. So let me talk about season one, and I would be remiss to talk about Season one Episode one episodes one through 25 and not thank everybody so

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I’m literally going to go one by one and name and thank everybody because it without all these people that were willing to come on and talk with me.

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I wouldn’t have a show. I wouldn’t have a show. So I’m going to start with, with the man Rand Rand fishkin who I actually did an interview with him while I was at startups. And he was nice enough to allow me to use it.

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For the, for the first episode of In adapt it for this podcast, because we did talk about a lot of SEO related related stuff. So nothing like starting out episode number one with Rand fishkin that was pretty cool.

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Zach to Hollis South Sarah Maggie bar. Cindy crumb Nick Ranger. Jeff, of course, Margie stall Joanna Gail ish Matt Oh, such

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The annual ang Samantha mayor Nick Eubanks Janet are totally Tom Raynor jr oaks. The trio of Tim Wilson Michael helping and know Omri

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Levin Jennifer right Brian Gorman Nikki Mosher Jenny Hollis JP Sherman and Ross Hudgens. Those were all of my guests.

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from season one, and I wanted to thank you all again you all were amazing. And if you happen to listen. Just know that there’s always a place

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For you and and I want to make it very clear that anybody that has been on this show at least once, always welcome back. If you have something you want to talk about always welcome.

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I will say, like I said before, most of them were my, my friends or colleagues before and and many of them. I didn’t, I didn’t know. So it was a good mix of

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For me getting out of my comfort zone and also some of it staying in my comfort zone by talking to talking to people I knew. So it’s really, really awesome.

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Um, in terms of, well, let me first, let me let me let me talk about some of the mistakes I made

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And I think the biggest one. And it’s, it’s actually driving me crazy. Even to this moment.

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Because I didn’t really feel like I didn’t know if the podcast would be successful or worth continuing to pursue

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And and i think success is is relative. Right. It’s not like I have a bazillion downloads or listens or any or anything like that.

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I think what it’s given me is a great excuse to meet a bunch of really great people. But the one thing I didn’t do, and I should have done it and I’m killing myself right now is I did not buy the.com domain and

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When I decided after season one, maybe this is a real thing. Maybe I need to stand up a website, I went to GoDaddy and I searched page to podcast. COM. Yes. Because when I had originally decided on this brand in this title name. Nobody had it.

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And of course taken and it’s like what taken and with some quick research some quick plugging in of the name. It turns out, a church.

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has also decided to choose to use this brand name, which is what really embarrassed.

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This thing especially because I’m an SEO like that’s like that’s like one on one level stuff and I can’t believe that I that I missed it. The good thing is

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I started mine way before them, you know, in the fall of last year. So I’ve had it for about a year, they had, they didn’t start until about April.

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And in checking our sites, a date the dam site is down. Like, I don’t know if they sold it. I’ve reached out to them and they don’t want to sell me the domain name.

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So I do know that I’m going to like work on like getting the trademark. So eventually I can go back and be like the only owner of this brand.

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But like I just want to like slap myself in the face for not thinking, even if I wasn’t going to do anything with it to buy the domain. It was so stupid. And now I’m regretting it, but what I will say is we did buy a domain. It’s Page two podcast.fm which I actually like better.

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We and we have stood up a website and I think it’s pretty damn cool and the homepage is is a playoff A STEP BROTHERS, which is pretty damn funny.

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But yeah, man. I feel so stupid and evolved things that church. Like, how does the church stumble on the name page. I just don’t even understand how they would stumble on that.

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Yeah. Well, good thing is, it looks like it expires in January. So January 1 so

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I’ll be right on top of that, if they are, if they are not continuing to pursue their pot podcast.

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Either way will outrank them.

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Yeah, well, yeah, that’s what I was gonna say is

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I you know I thought about, like, okay, do I rebrand do I go through that. And I was like, hell no. I’m an SEO. No, I’m just going to out optimize them and other than owning the the domain. I’m not gonna like

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Allow them. And I’m not trying to be like mean or anything like that. But like, this is what I do.

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Like you’re coming into fly arena, even though I was an idiot and gave them gave them like a clear advantage know now they’re coming into my arena.

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And we’re gonna we’re gonna figure this thing out. The other thing that I thought was a mistake is like part of my

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personal brand and it’s more just like who I am. I like mob movies and like my original idea for the format was to find a way to integrate that in some way.

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Within the original format, you know, you can actually hear it in the first couple of episodes. Before I decided to kind of change the music and be less awful.

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Was, was the format originally was very clunky in in very segmented which is funny because we’re actually going to a more regimented format.

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In Season two, which we’ll talk about but like the format was clunky and I knew like pretty quickly that like, okay, this is awful. And it’s and amateurish. And it’s time to like make a change, both to the to the to the music as well as the

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cadence of how like episodes were introduced, and the flow of episodes and it really actually became you know after episode five more of just kind of a free flowing

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Conversation, and I do hope to keep kind of an element of that. But it really turned into really nice just fleet free flowing conversations that just kind of went wherever they went under the main premise of telling the origin story of where people come from.

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Does that because I didn’t know my movies.

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You came in in Episode seven. And so, you were right.

00:19:28.200 –> 00:19:28.440

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Right on.

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Yeah, the, the new, new and improved two point O format page to podcasts. But no, I mean, do you know my movies.

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I have seen them. I will not say that I am I’ll say that I haven’t watched The Sopranos, and I know that’s probably you wouldn’t have picked me if I told you that a couple weeks ago.

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I will say, I’m going to get a third for anybody out there that does like mob movies. There is a really good one coming up that I’m going to give you a tip on and it’s only going to be available on Netflix. It’s called the Irishman.

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So look that up.

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It had in and I will tell you.

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It is probably the last, I don’t want to save the last great mob movie, but it’s definitely probably going to be the last movie that patchy is in so patchy came out of retirement Joe patchy not the actor from Goodfellas.

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Casino. And for those of you that don’t know those movies home alone the bump bump bundling burglar in home alone, which he was hilarious in

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He, he came out of retirement to play my boss Russell buffa Leno. And you’ve also got in this movie De Niro.

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Pacino Harvey Keitel which are three like mainstays in the mob genre and they’ve never actually all been in a film together, Martin Scorsese directing

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He’s never he’s worked with all of these actors except pitino individually or in sometimes in tandems but never, never all together and then I don’t know if you guys will recognize this name, but the guy named Steven Graham.

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In another guy named Bobby kind of Ali, who were both in Boardwalk Empire Stephen grand played Al Capone. He was also in gangs in New York.

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Many other movies. He’s actually like a really famous face you just wouldn’t know his name. So he’s in this movie as well. Anyways, so that’s a tip the Irish man, it comes out in late November I am apparently the new PR person for that or anyways. Getting back to season, season one.

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What do I think what. Well, I’m the concept of. So what I didn’t want to be and I said this all throughout Season.

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You know, like I’m ever the smartest SEO in the room.

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I’ve done this for a long time, but there’s always like, there’s always somebody smarter than you, and there’s there’s always more to learn. There’s always somebody with either more experience different experiences.

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Or a different perspective. And I never ever want to consider myself the smartest SEO in the room, which is why sometimes I kind of cringe I cringe a lot at the conference circuit I cringe.

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A lot at just different aspects of the industry and certain personalities in the industry that claim to have all of the

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All of the tips, all of the advice, all of the expertise and they’re they’re infallible and never wrong.

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And that just wasn’t me. So I wanted to talk about SEO, but I if that was the way that I was going to do it. I just wouldn’t have done it.

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Because that’s just not me. That’s not who I am, but I did have an idea because one of the things that intrigues me and I’ve said this many, many times. And this is going to continue to be a hallmark of the show.

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Is that because there isn’t like formal there at least as it stands now, there’s no formal way to go get trained to be an SEO like within traditional educational mediums like college

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Right, you learn marketing and it touches on SEO, but like when when those folks with marketing degrees come out of college, they are in no way no way prepared to start a career in SEO. No way. They’re so green

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It’s not their fault right everybody tells you get out, you know, get a degree, go to college. It’s the thing that you do after high school so

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It’s what you’re supposed to do. So the people that are doing that are doing the right thing. But if you want to get into this career. Like, honestly, most of the people that have gotten into it were either there when it started.

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Like Jeff based basically

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Just working on the internet and adapted into SEOs or you got into it by accident, like we had we’ve had so many careers and I actually want to create like a page on our, on our new site that just talks about the weird careers that people had before they were SEOs

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glass blowers archaeologists electric violinist an amazing and it’s it fascinates me. It’s like, well, how the hell did you go from that to SEO. So like

00:24:16.530 –> 00:24:25.020
As I started talking to people in and not only that I didn’t just want to talk about the origin stories but like I wanted to talk about like what it’s like day to day because like

00:24:25.800 –> 00:24:36.870
Day to day, man. You can get so frustrated with with the way things go with your accounts and they’re like, they’re there are huge highs.

00:24:37.350 –> 00:24:50.910
low lows and it’s a grind and I and I didn’t feel. Excuse me. I didn’t feel like there were a lot of shows out there like talking about, like, if you go and do a career in SEO like this. What you want to do.

00:24:51.540 –> 00:25:00.870
This is really what it’s like. Because like what you see on the surface is like everybody talking about like how great it is. And it’s always like up into the right you know traffic.

00:25:01.440 –> 00:25:06.510
So easy and it’s really not. It takes a lot of patience. A lot of grit and a lot of determination.

00:25:06.840 –> 00:25:13.560
And there’s a lot of a lot of success. Sure. But there’s a lot of failure as well and you don’t necessarily see that on the surface, and that’s

00:25:14.040 –> 00:25:25.440
That’s the angle that I felt like okay this is my unique angle. This is what I can bring to the market, that’s not there now and as I started talking to people and like

00:25:25.980 –> 00:25:32.460
Interviewing people and as people started listening. I do feel like I got a sense of validation that like, hey,

00:25:33.330 –> 00:25:45.120
This isn’t a terrible idea. Now, maybe it’s never going to be as popular as some of the more well known well known SEOs and I guess I’m, I’m okay with that. But, good idea. And it’s a good

00:25:45.990 –> 00:25:52.170
Avenue to explore and that’s something I want to continue, continue to explore. So I felt like that was a really good

00:25:52.710 –> 00:25:58.080
Thing for me. That is why I’m still doing this. I’ll probably just do this in perpetuity. Now because there’s

00:25:58.680 –> 00:26:10.740
There’s literally no shortage like Jeff and I like before we started season to literally put together a giant list of SEOs and I don’t even think we’ve scratched the surface and the list is hundreds long like

00:26:10.950 –> 00:26:18.630
So we can growing hundreds of show there are hundreds of shows and stories out there like waiting to be told. So like we’re excited to tell them

00:26:20.850 –> 00:26:30.990
Yeah. Awesome. So Jeff, what’s in store for season season to help everybody understand like what we’ve got kind of lined up. Yeah.

00:26:31.020 –> 00:26:31.710
Definitely so

00:26:33.180 –> 00:26:36.450
Jacobs gonna be stepping aside and I’m going to take over the whole kit.

00:26:38.760 –> 00:26:47.100
I think a lot of the same from last year. I mean, I think we’re gonna work off the success you had where you’re just getting to understand and, you know,

00:26:47.610 –> 00:26:52.020
Have SEOs tell their stories, how they got into it. What is their backstory is what are the some of their passions.

00:26:52.560 –> 00:27:01.740
Inside of SEO outside of SEO and in general like that I think will be adding a little bit. Well, I know we’ll be adding a little bit more of the news, even though

00:27:02.490 –> 00:27:20.100
On the podcast, maybe it’s not as evergreen because news comes and goes. But in general, just talking with it with our guests about how we will just current news is that’s going on, just to pick your brains, find out what people feel about it, Google’s always changing.

00:27:21.270 –> 00:27:26.400
Being is now like 30% of the market. So they say

00:27:28.080 –> 00:27:37.140
So here’s just understanding that stuff. What’s going on and give me a talk about it, but I don’t see that being a main purpose in there, but we’re doing some

00:27:38.430 –> 00:27:44.010
Aspects, I think we’re gonna be a little more like three or four times a month we’ll be doing. We’re trying to knock out a week.

00:27:44.250 –> 00:27:54.930
And see that was another failure of season one is like it was really hard to because you are you are at the mercy of other people’s schedules and we’re still like that, but with one person trying to like

00:27:55.290 –> 00:28:03.420
Do everything. It was really hard to like be well organized, and I think this year, like we’ve brought some and it’s funny. I’m a mob guy and

00:28:03.900 –> 00:28:20.250
With that comes organized crime. And I think there’s going to be some organization to what’s going on this year. So I think we’re going to be able to be a little bit more consistent with putting out episodes, which as I hear is critical to success. So definitely wanted to check that.

00:28:21.180 –> 00:28:36.270
No agreed and and having the schedules also helps people know to, like, hey, on Monday or Tuesday comes out and we need to you know they’re they’re looking forward to it. Right. They look forward to the next episodes look forward to it. Definitely. Well, and

00:28:37.230 –> 00:28:45.150
So we already have also for season two some really amazing guests lined lined up and like I i do want to preview.

00:28:45.840 –> 00:29:02.670
Few of them, but like we’ve we’ve got let me look at the list, Simon. Simon Cox, we’ve got Mr jr oaks, making a comeback and specifically that episode is going to be going to be interesting because we are bringing in Martin split sweet. Yeah.

00:29:03.210 –> 00:29:03.630

00:29:03.750 –> 00:29:14.670
From Google like run Google that’s that’s that’s awesome. In that episode with with four people, and I’m used to just having two people interview style.

00:29:15.450 –> 00:29:20.490
Having a roundtable discussion and specifically like we’re going to talk about Martin’s background like

00:29:20.910 –> 00:29:26.850
What does it take to get to frickin Google like how do you get there. Is it is it really like the Vince Vaughn and Owen Wilson.

00:29:27.150 –> 00:29:33.480
Interns movies really like that or like, is there something something else. And then we’re going to deep dive into JavaScript.

00:29:34.230 –> 00:29:51.630
Which is going to be awesome. And then after that, we’ve got Kelly stanzi Alicia Anderson Angela Berkman we’ve got Mr. Patrick stocks. Mr. H refs newly acquired a dress and IBM and we’ve got some really other really good, yes.

00:29:52.770 –> 00:30:01.590
Lined lined up and coming, coming along. I don’t want to like Barry Adobe, but there’s going to be some really smart people. And we’re really excited.

00:30:02.340 –> 00:30:05.250
I think we have Larry Page and Sergey coming on. Right.

00:30:05.550 –> 00:30:10.050
Right, right, right. Yeah, I’ve got them on my. Yeah. Actually, I’m sure you’ve got them you’ve got

00:30:10.620 –> 00:30:14.790
Their email. Right. Yeah, I’ll just make a call and right, am I kidding.

00:30:15.180 –> 00:30:23.070
Cool, man. So yeah, so lots of really good stuff coming in season two. So we’re really excited about it. So definitely

00:30:23.640 –> 00:30:41.280
Make sure you pay attention, but for this, for this particular session. I wanted to do our first round of SEO news and it’s not that I just want to like just talk about the news and react, but I think like honestly I think hearing some of our reactions and

00:30:42.330 –> 00:30:48.960
Probably some skepticism for certain things is going to be like the hallmark of this this section.

00:30:49.350 –> 00:31:01.980
To hear like what SEO is really think like when they’re put on the spot about certain things like you’re going to like if you listened last year to the rel next and rel prefer news and you heard me go off.

00:31:02.760 –> 00:31:09.240
They’re going to be in actually today, like they’re going to be some some some things that I might just go off on. So I think it’s going to be really cool.

00:31:09.870 –> 00:31:22.500
To talk with other SEOs and talk about the stories of the day and listen to like their real unfiltered thoughts about what news is kind of coming out in the industry. Yeah.

00:31:23.880 –> 00:31:26.100
You mean like putting SEO on autopilot.

00:31:27.060 –> 00:31:28.800
Fucking SEO on autopilot.

00:31:30.540 –> 00:31:31.860
gonna pull that article up

00:31:32.280 –> 00:31:34.530
Yeah, I haven’t. Uh, can

00:31:35.760 –> 00:31:38.670
You just read it, read it to me use if you don’t

00:31:40.530 –> 00:31:55.380
So bright edge is automating SEO with the launch of the bright edge autopilot. They announced this at share 19 I just the title alone I you know cringe when I read it because

00:31:56.430 –> 00:31:56.730
You know,

00:31:57.960 –> 00:32:10.440
If anyone knows I don’t think SEO can be put on autopilot. There may be tasks and things that we can do better. I think we really part of like what I love to do and my job is automating some things

00:32:10.980 –> 00:32:19.350
But it’s not really automating decisions and processes like that. Right. It’s kind of using all the tool mark at tools and things that we have out that are available to us to

00:32:20.520 –> 00:32:33.180
Just help us make more decisions, but you know marketing gets involved and using a term like autopilot. We’ve had a few people bring it up and I love Twitter reaction on it.

00:32:34.740 –> 00:32:43.800
It kind of just when they announced it. There’s just a slew of, you know, SEOs in general are skeptical skeptical of everything so

00:32:45.060 –> 00:32:56.670
When we first saw it going in there. It’s just like, you know, my main reaction is like it might say we automated some task it right edge to me is it’s a good tool.

00:32:57.750 –> 00:33:06.420
Is it the best. I don’t, I don’t think so. I think it’s very expensive. And you could probably pay an SEO hundred thousand dollars a year and have him do all your SEO.

00:33:07.110 –> 00:33:08.250
And BG burger.

00:33:08.790 –> 00:33:10.050
Or her. Sorry. Yes.

00:33:12.090 –> 00:33:22.560
And I have them, you know, have them kind of on autopilot for you and actually have some human decisions there so I don’t know the full extent of it. I haven’t really

00:33:23.970 –> 00:33:33.390
Dug like I just see the press release that they put out, but at the same time they had, like, I haven’t actually demoed any of the tools there. I’ve seen and heard some things where

00:33:34.020 –> 00:33:42.450
I think Rei uses them and uses it for kind of like if you like this category. You might like some other categories and then it gives you 10 links at the bottom of the page.

00:33:44.100 –> 00:33:53.820
Sort of like a bloom reach type of deal that I think, but I don’t think they auto create the content for you. Such like bloom reach did but if it is anything like that.

00:33:54.450 –> 00:34:11.580
I’ve seen really great case studies bloom reach where rankings like quadrupled but traffic went down or didn’t like work great. And I’ve had a couple clients, where we taking them off and our rankings have plummeted and actually sales and traffic went up so

00:34:12.870 –> 00:34:18.840
automating towards anything Google and anything’s Google’s algorithm is not

00:34:20.520 –> 00:34:26.880
I can’t trust it. Right. And I don’t think you should ever trust an automated tool to to run your campaigns, so

00:34:26.910 –> 00:34:38.730
So let me tell you my feelings about bright edge and they’re there. I try not to be a negative nancy but they’re pretty strong on on this one. And I also don’t like to complain and be like snarky and like

00:34:39.660 –> 00:34:50.190
glass half empty, like why am a glass half empty person probably in life, but like, at least in like my public facing Twitter persona like unless it’s like the Browns

00:34:50.460 –> 00:34:56.850
You’re probably not going to see me criticizing a lot of things, but this is this is one of them. And I will say that I

00:34:57.330 –> 00:35:07.320
Am not an unbiased. So in my past Job, Job actually in your past job to like we worked at an agency where bright edge was the SEO tool of record.

00:35:07.650 –> 00:35:14.580
And actually, like, one of the SEO tools we one of the only SEO tools we have at our disposal, and I will say, like, when I first

00:35:15.510 –> 00:35:28.200
When I first got my hands on it and this is like back in like 2011 I was like holy shit. This tool is amazing. Like this tool is really awesome. But then as I started to like get

00:35:28.680 –> 00:35:44.550
Into into other tools and as other tools started to evolve I I quickly notice bright edge kind of falling behind, and it quickly for me became kind of a point of contention, to the point, like where I wanted to when I got somewhere else.

00:35:45.570 –> 00:35:56.820
I really wanted to dive into other tools. And when I did finally get a chance to dive into those other tools, I realized just how far behind. I thought they were in terms of being like an enterprise.

00:35:57.420 –> 00:36:05.490
Level tool and for how expensive they are you just don’t get as much as you get with an SEM rush or in a traps or even a mas

00:36:06.150 –> 00:36:18.330
In terms of analysis and research in competitive you know right review ability, but the problem with this, with this message this autopilot message.

00:36:18.810 –> 00:36:27.420
Is is not the actual tool itself. It’s in my opinion, the fact that it is going to be permeated throughout

00:36:28.020 –> 00:36:41.370
The industry through to marketing teams to businesses and business owners and they’re going to again, think that SEO is something that can just be put on autopilot.

00:36:42.060 –> 00:36:48.300
And it’s going to continue to devalue our profession. When in fact, like when you actually

00:36:48.840 –> 00:36:58.140
Probably look at the tools capabilities and if there’s anybody from bright edge like come change my opinion change my opinion. Give me a demo change my opinion, and I will happily eat crow.

00:36:58.440 –> 00:37:18.150
I want I want a crow on a traps. When I call it not that great of a tool and Tim solo came along and change my opinion. So I’ll happily eat crow. But what I imagine this tool being this quote unquote always on put SEO on autopilot is just a better marketed version of

00:37:19.350 –> 00:37:30.480
An SEO radar or an uptime robot or any or content. Content King little warden. Basically, anything that’s just detecting issues as they as they crop up

00:37:31.020 –> 00:37:43.740
I don’t envision envision bright edge, being able to automate the process, nor should it have writing content or determining which pages to create on your website.

00:37:44.340 –> 00:37:52.260
Or analyzing competitors in and taking that information and using it to determine strategy. There are a lot of technical things that that

00:37:52.650 –> 00:38:05.280
Can’t and nor should they be be automated and I hate, hate, hate, hate the fact that there are people probably in people in high positions that are going to take this

00:38:05.610 –> 00:38:13.950
And they’re going to buy into this tool and think that it’s going to do the job for them that a human used to do. I guess it’s probably like

00:38:14.520 –> 00:38:22.080
Like having, having the machine in the grocery store when you can have the clerk ring you out. That’s, I feel like maybe like the old. I’m like,

00:38:22.950 –> 00:38:33.360
On the border of being the old old person on the lawn yelling. Get off my lawn. But I pretty strongly feel that you kind of need the human element in

00:38:33.780 –> 00:38:38.580
In SEO still because there are so many things that requires

00:38:39.390 –> 00:38:53.220
A human’s intuition and and a person to to guide the strategy and like last time I checked, I know AI is coming a long way and there’s a lot of great things going on with machine learning in our industry, but last time I checked,

00:38:54.120 –> 00:39:06.540
terminators aren’t here yet. So I think I’m still going to have a job for at least a few more years. And I think that I can do my job better than bright edges autopilot SEO program.

00:39:08.070 –> 00:39:08.280

00:39:08.700 –> 00:39:09.660
The one thing I will say about

00:39:11.100 –> 00:39:19.710
In the positive note on bright edge. Is that the one thing they really do try to do and a lot of these tools conductor or

00:39:21.030 –> 00:39:33.330
Even SEM rush and hrs now right there trying to make it where the pulling in every data for a long time in SEO you a dress was my link tool and, you know, mas was my, you know,

00:39:34.140 –> 00:39:39.210
Keyword Tool or something. I just going through all the different aspects that way. They are all now.

00:39:39.990 –> 00:39:46.170
Bringing in every single one of these features which makes tooling hard because there’s so much overlap. Now, and these tools.

00:39:46.800 –> 00:39:53.790
Bright edge being the enterprise level of that like the most enterprise level of them, and by enterprise, they mean most expensive.

00:39:54.420 –> 00:40:10.440
They really like you’re coming into your a fortune 100 company, you have an internal SEO like here’s your tool. It’ll integrate in with, you know, Google Analytics or Adobe analytics and layer some data over top of each other.

00:40:11.760 –> 00:40:22.500
The thing that I don’t think they did well. Like, whereas I hated weekly rankings. I like I like my rankings daily just even though I’m not reporting to my clients daily

00:40:23.580 –> 00:40:29.820
If you’ve ever used weekly or monthly rankings and have done any type of site migrations or a site like

00:40:30.660 –> 00:40:37.140
redesigns really don’t want to wait a week to kind of see how things are flexing out. And then if you fix things. You don’t want to have to wait a week.

00:40:37.980 –> 00:40:42.750
Technically it might take a week for it to actually happen. But I want to see that on a daily like I’m going to see motion.

00:40:43.650 –> 00:40:52.230
I’m again not looking at my monthly reporting on a daily basis, but at the same time, just want to know, when I make a change that it’s actually working. I feel that

00:40:52.770 –> 00:41:01.500
Them adding in some of those functionalities and things like that would be better off there. Now they can give you an idea of what needs to be fixed, but

00:41:02.280 –> 00:41:13.740
As you know, and probably anyone who’s worked at an agency doing SEO knows getting things implemented is the hard part. I don’t think they could ever do that because nobody in their right mind would just like let

00:41:14.790 –> 00:41:16.470
print ads right things for them.

00:41:17.160 –> 00:41:17.820
To do it.

00:41:17.910 –> 00:41:19.080
Yeah, let the robots.

00:41:19.440 –> 00:41:30.390
And I think at the time. That’s what bloom reach sort of tried to do right they created custom categories based off of like search demands never used it. I’ve worked at getting it off of people sites and things like that way.

00:41:30.840 –> 00:41:39.780
In work and I’ve seen it working for for a client problem with that and maybe even the problem with bright edge. I don’t know. It’s like once you turn them off.

00:41:40.320 –> 00:41:49.560
It’s gone like like you get stuck when you’re paying because in the reason to use a service like bloom reach and this is a tangent

00:41:49.950 –> 00:41:58.230
Is like if you have such severe restrictions on your technology back end that you can’t add content to your site.

00:41:58.950 –> 00:42:02.700
Or if there’s a lot of red tape to go through bloom reach was a solution.

00:42:03.390 –> 00:42:10.500
Maybe bright edges. I don’t know. It was a solution that could help you kind of bypass some of that stuff and and in an automated

00:42:10.860 –> 00:42:26.820
Sort of way to create content which you need in many cases to garner rankings. Like there’s still a thing in SEO were like, if you want to rank for a certain thing, you almost always have to have a piece of content dedicated towards that that thing.

00:42:28.500 –> 00:42:34.560
Enabled that but the problem. It’s like, like I said, once you stop paying them. It went away. So you got locked in.

00:42:35.130 –> 00:42:44.310
And Stephen Spencer with his gravity stream in the past like it was kind of a CMS. That was not part of your site that you could create pages and then it would

00:42:46.680 –> 00:42:57.690
redirect them it would canonical eyes over to his proper pages actually found it useful on some things were like, there are some e commerce sites out there and systems.

00:42:58.290 –> 00:43:02.490
I used to work at GSA commerce and their platform like we couldn’t do a ton of things with

00:43:02.790 –> 00:43:08.550
So being able to layer, something like that. It was a band aid. It’s always a bandaid LIKE THE IDEA IS ALWAYS I have something on the site.

00:43:08.880 –> 00:43:16.950
And having your system run right but sometimes you just couldn’t do that. And I think they solved a nice there that would that really help that.

00:43:17.640 –> 00:43:27.480
But at the same time, you don’t pay, then that’s all gone. Right. So it’s one of those week. However, we go and as an SEO. I always look at it that way. How can we be evergreen, how can we

00:43:27.870 –> 00:43:39.030
Make our changes. Now the last forever. Compared to putting a band aid or more of a PPC SEO kind of thing like a paid SEO type of engagement, where I feel like if you

00:43:39.810 –> 00:43:45.570
Like, yes. I think had that also with their local like you stop paying extra and some reason your locals stuff changed.

00:43:46.500 –> 00:43:57.630
So it’s one of those. We don’t want to have to continually be paying into we want to build something improve and then improve off of that, and then improve off of that and not have to worry about, like, going back to zero.

00:43:58.050 –> 00:44:05.280
So what are some things that we do we feel like can be good and should be automated with SEO.

00:44:06.030 –> 00:44:23.130
Right. So it’s interesting. So the more we automate like our reporting and bring that stuff in there. I really, I do love automated reports, but I sometimes miss just digging into analytics, right, because it’s like we can report on all our premier

00:44:24.270 –> 00:44:29.520
metrics are, you know, our top metrics, we’re looking at, you know, traffic revenue, of course, all that type stuff.

00:44:30.060 –> 00:44:36.540
But we really like sometimes I find those little nuggets, just by sitting there and staring at analytics for

00:44:37.110 –> 00:44:45.030
35 minutes 40 minutes an hour and like oh my god I see something in a different way. I think we do miss that with some automation.

00:44:45.930 –> 00:45:02.400
But at the main thing like my reporting times have dropped from taking me five hours to build a report to now the most of the reports already done and now I can spend that one extra hour of digging into the data. So instead of taking me five hours of drop that down to an hour.

00:45:03.600 –> 00:45:13.890
Which is which is great. I think that’s one of the things we can definitely do automating using someone like deep crawl crawl and just having my crawls automated like Screaming Frog. Great.

00:45:15.090 –> 00:45:24.180
I usually use it when like I want to find something out now, but deep crawls great at like crawling keeping track of our crawl and keeping track of our progress.

00:45:24.810 –> 00:45:34.740
And just knowing, like, hey, we’ve I found it so many times. Like, I’ve given developers like here’s some things we want to do. They’re not always the best at telling us when it’s done.

00:45:35.190 –> 00:45:45.900
A hum. So having something that’s always looking. I usually run them on like a weekly basis and I can see like, oh, look, all of our, you know, for four pages went away, or all our, you know, issues that we have with redirects or now fixed

00:45:46.980 –> 00:45:54.690
And usually, like I just felt with a message like thanks guys for doing this. Like it, you know, I’m not going to nitpick that I think as SEOs we’re always looking at people’s sites anyway.

00:45:55.620 –> 00:46:03.330
To find out that stuff. And I do love that I can find out things that happened on sites before my clients do a lot of times

00:46:03.900 –> 00:46:13.740
Using tools like uptime tools I use uptime robot because it’s free. So many times I’ve told my clients that their sites are down. And they’re like, Oh, thanks for letting us know because they didn’t know themselves.

00:46:14.100 –> 00:46:30.240
The problem with humans is we have to sleep and and that’s what I think bright edge might be trying to do is to be like looking it up time and save changes. And if it’s that that’s a good thing, but it’s not like a holistic autopilot strategy, but like green

00:46:30.810 –> 00:46:45.330
Naming yeah we found like a rogue no index tag or like robots disallow or exclusion that is caused and this type of stuff when applied to an enterprise site can have million

00:46:45.780 –> 00:46:55.710
Dollar ramifications. So, like that. That’s good. And that should be automated. And if that’s what brian i just doing the good good for them. I wish they would market differently site speed.

00:46:56.400 –> 00:47:06.270
Site speeds really hard and I would really like to see more automation there, especially with things like image optimization. Because, like, what happens is you’ve got

00:47:06.720 –> 00:47:17.880
You’ve got your developers and the people handling the back end and invariably like okay, because there are a lot of people on a team that needs to put content and do things on the website.

00:47:18.300 –> 00:47:28.620
Many probably, most of which don’t know how to code or don’t know anything about don’t care about speed or just the things that the things that we care about.

00:47:29.400 –> 00:47:37.590
In in feel like I’ve seen so many times where, like, just a content author or a content editor, whatever.

00:47:38.490 –> 00:47:53.700
uploads like a five meg image on to a web page like no big deal. And there’s no, like, there’s no way to restrict them from doing that because it takes this feed from three seconds to 20 seconds and there’s just no way to

00:47:54.390 –> 00:48:02.700
To really kind of control and enforcing govern govern that and I, and there are tools out there and services out there that help with that.

00:48:02.940 –> 00:48:15.990
And it’s something I would like to see more often so that the folks that are uploading the images can do what they need to do without crushing crushing users under the weight of their really poor site speed decisions.

00:48:16.260 –> 00:48:20.460
Yeah, I mean, unlike the WordPress front like using I like to use like the short pixel

00:48:21.540 –> 00:48:27.570
Plug in there which anytime I upload something it’s automatically doing that for me. I think they even have a new version. Now that

00:48:27.930 –> 00:48:41.610
Crops everything because I have one client who is the same way every time they update their, their site in their main navigation on their homepage to have like a kid section. They always put this image that this big

00:48:42.870 –> 00:48:43.230

00:48:43.290 –> 00:48:46.590
When you’re right click and open a new window. It’s five megabytes.

00:48:46.620 –> 00:48:49.260
Yeah, I was gonna say this people listening Jeff is saying this big

00:48:49.590 –> 00:48:50.310
Oh yeah. True.

00:48:50.490 –> 00:48:51.750
Yeah, yeah. This is like

00:48:51.810 –> 00:48:52.920
Radio. You have to be

00:48:54.180 –> 00:48:55.110
You can’t just get

00:48:55.680 –> 00:48:59.370
My first episode. So it’s I’m learning. Yeah, it’s other

00:49:00.210 –> 00:49:09.480
Yeah, though. It’s like in a main kind of drop down now. They put a little image there, but right developer uploaded at five, you know, five megapixel size or something like that, where

00:49:09.840 –> 00:49:18.390
Now that’s on every single page of the site and their whole site gets terrible scores because of that stuff. So having some sort of you know that asset manager.

00:49:19.380 –> 00:49:26.730
Or image serving platform. I know there’s there’s plenty of them out there where you upload to that. And that takes care of all that for you.

00:49:27.060 –> 00:49:27.930
Cloud an airy.

00:49:27.990 –> 00:49:29.490
Is a good commentary. I’ll

00:49:29.520 –> 00:49:30.600
Play it now.

00:49:31.260 –> 00:49:38.940
So, and then there’s also, I think, Adobe has seen seven which kind of gives you some other functions inside of it, but that’s like another one that kind of stuff like that.

00:49:39.690 –> 00:49:42.090
So what else is going on in the news. JEFF, TELL ME

00:49:42.480 –> 00:49:51.840
What you’re talking about site speed. One of the cool things that I see that Google Search Console is experimental. Now I’m not as lucky to get into that.

00:49:52.500 –> 00:50:01.590
experimental phase there, but they are going to be implementing a ton of site speed reports inside of Search Console. That’s exciting. Yeah, from what I can see it looks like

00:50:01.740 –> 00:50:02.580
Excited about that.

00:50:03.480 –> 00:50:08.490
Yeah. So Barry Schwartz posted it up on Search Engine Land, I think it was today. It was probably maybe yesterday.

00:50:09.690 –> 00:50:12.810
Bunch of screenshots, which is great. It looks like they’re taking everything from

00:50:14.070 –> 00:50:24.210
This Lighthouse our latest tool and Google’s insights and putting it into like the kind of search console charts that we’re used to seeing now.

00:50:25.140 –> 00:50:34.020
Where we have like our three choices will show us like our slow pages are fast pages. I think they actually have a moderate page section two, which is good because we can see

00:50:34.380 –> 00:50:43.500
At this point, which pages are the slowest why and it’s site wide, which is awesome. Most HP tools. It’s one page at a time. I think a lot of

00:50:43.950 –> 00:50:53.040
Yeah, for at least ones for SEO that we get, like, unless you’re using a tool like rigor, or some of these really web performance tools out there which I would love to get a little bit more into

00:50:53.850 –> 00:51:01.440
Um, but just the reporting aspect of it, it’s kind of been a tough thing, getting your page speeds out of Google Analytics.

00:51:01.980 –> 00:51:10.470
They give you like a point oh one sample rate of people coming to your site and and anytime I try to get anything insightful out of that.

00:51:11.160 –> 00:51:20.760
It’ll tell me like one of my main pages is like a 42nd load time but no other tool says that, so I don’t really trust the Google Analytics data on that it had been one person had a bad day.

00:51:21.540 –> 00:51:28.350
Or bad computer or some plugin on the browser made it run a lot longer. So, at least with this. We’re going to get site wide.

00:51:29.130 –> 00:51:42.060
Speed page tests and and we can actually track that. And now with Google Search Console updating a lot more and Lot frequency. It’s going you know at least be a day old data at the most. So search

00:51:42.360 –> 00:51:51.840
Like they didn’t do anything in Search Console forever, even after they made the the migration and they’re on fire recently on it’s been like

00:51:52.320 –> 00:52:00.030
Update after man, they must have had like a giant huge built up because it’s been lately. Like, you can’t even keep up with all of the updates that have been happening.

00:52:00.570 –> 00:52:16.380
No, it’s great. I mean, I’m adding like the video schema and video like impressions and clicks through it. That’s been I love video right and I love. I’m a, I’m a YouTube premium subscriber one because I hate commercials being an advertising. It’s always fun that way, but

00:52:17.580 –> 00:52:25.500
And the second was because I like the new Karate Kid Cobra Kai TV show, so I I paid to get into. See that then and get rid of some

00:52:25.500 –> 00:52:32.640
Renewed. Yeah. And now if I go on to, like, one of my kids accounts and try to watch something I just always put the video.

00:52:33.060 –> 00:52:38.010
With the commercials here, but for my clients and I think video is great. I think video is awesome for

00:52:38.580 –> 00:52:48.480
stuff you’re doing on on your site, it depends on, it depends on what you’re selling or what your site’s about, but we have a bunch of clients that have some really good videos and they host them on YouTube.

00:52:49.710 –> 00:52:56.700
And have them on their site, but we don’t ever know. And anyone who’s going to their from they’re going from Google to their site to see a video.

00:52:57.030 –> 00:53:04.800
So adding the video scheme and we always recommend that, of course, but now Google is actually showing us like is our schema correct, are we showing

00:53:05.310 –> 00:53:10.350
You know the thing I like the most is impressions and clicks and been able to go through some clients data to say like

00:53:10.860 –> 00:53:15.960
Oh look, we’re, we’re seeing impressions were showing up for all these keywords for videos which

00:53:16.440 –> 00:53:23.730
That has kind of been a black hole, to an extent, and there are some ranking tools would tell us that, but you have to know the tool and you have to know the keywords to search for

00:53:24.180 –> 00:53:30.570
At least the Search Console. They’re saying these are the keywords that you’re showing up for whether it’s 100% accurate or hundred percent all the keywords.

00:53:32.070 –> 00:53:39.180
At this early stage doesn’t necessarily matter to me because I’m looking at it as like I have data now which which I never had. So

00:53:39.930 –> 00:53:44.040
I’m dying for the day. Once I get speaker, you know, Google Home speaker data in there too.

00:53:44.550 –> 00:53:58.800
Which I think is not gonna be far behind. I can’t you know 100% say it, but to know what people have searched for inner voice. I think it’s going to make search Council like it’s already to me invaluable. But I think it’s going to be like the most valuable item out there.

00:53:59.700 –> 00:54:01.590
Additionally, creepy as well.

00:54:02.070 –> 00:54:02.580

00:54:07.590 –> 00:54:12.120
Yeah, so I mean that’s that’s one thing I did see I have a little list here.

00:54:13.800 –> 00:54:17.370
I think one of the big ones that people have and this is one that I’ve always

00:54:18.600 –> 00:54:27.690
Had I don’t know. I think I had different feelings. The most SEOs and that’s about H ones and Google says H ones don’t matter for rankings and

00:54:29.100 –> 00:54:35.400
The SEO industry just went like nuts because they’re like you said, each ones are important and and like we got down to

00:54:35.940 –> 00:54:48.390
So I think what happens is SEOs make rules and best practices. And so the whole like only having one H1 per page like you were never getting a penalty. You were never getting anything by having multiple H ones.

00:54:49.470 –> 00:54:55.230
Technically, like coming from someone who was big into web standards and accessibility. Yeah, like

00:54:56.370 –> 00:55:03.000
Having multiple like technically in HTML5 like you can have multiple H ones, depending on the way you have your topics broken out

00:55:03.810 –> 00:55:13.470
I would always when I used to do a lot of front end development I programmed all the HTML first before I even put any CSS or anything into it so

00:55:13.830 –> 00:55:20.310
My goal was when I viewed it on a webpage. It looked like a college essay I had my headers properly.

00:55:21.000 –> 00:55:29.130
You know your H1, one reason people think that should be only one each one page which technically could be right on on the page. It all depends page by page.

00:55:29.790 –> 00:55:36.420
If you’re had an article you want to have that one theme per page and your H1 is your top theme for it and you want to have sub headings for it.

00:55:37.560 –> 00:55:42.840
I think Google like once wanted to have that in their search algorithms, but

00:55:43.410 –> 00:56:00.120
How many websites. If you looked at the had 37 or 100 H tues or H ones because every little contact us and, you know, SEOs we we like to abuse things. So if one each one’s great, then why not have 50 or if he is more powerful than normal paragraph. Let’s make everything each

00:56:00.330 –> 00:56:03.240
Other there’s people that just don’t know any better, like

00:56:03.330 –> 00:56:14.160
Word greater there’s a reason WordPress is the most widely used content management system on on the face of the earth because like there there was a huge

00:56:15.150 –> 00:56:26.220
huge population of people that have no clue how to build a web page, but that want to build a web page. And it makes it easy and in some cases like you can’t always nor do they want to know how to control.

00:56:27.150 –> 00:56:33.720
That stuff. But all that guy. I always, subscribe to the theory. There are kind of two things that that makes me think of one.

00:56:34.470 –> 00:56:47.910
The idea that we as SEOs like we make up standards and then like we just sometimes fall into the trap of just like blindly saying this the best practice without testing like without

00:56:48.270 –> 00:56:57.930
Actually like I I fell into the rail next and rail prefer trap where like I spent months we’re working with a client to get it right and it may

00:56:58.470 –> 00:57:05.160
In the end, still be good for accessibility and usability purposes, but like we could have been doing better.

00:57:05.970 –> 00:57:18.960
Better thing. And because that was the best practice and they had really messed it up on their site. We spent months getting that implemented into find out that like it was just not even being considered was like that really pissed me off, but

00:57:18.990 –> 00:57:19.470
At the same

00:57:19.560 –> 00:57:29.100
Time. It was my own fault because I didn’t test it. So, like, there’s that there’s that element of things that we blindly just follow best practices, without actually testing them in many, many cases.

00:57:29.760 –> 00:57:38.280
And then there’s the there’s the other. It made me think of, like, just like you said it should look like a college essay. And I think that

00:57:38.970 –> 00:57:50.790
I’m still personally in favor of having a you know a single H1 only because like I think in terms of like the overarching page structure and I really do try to think of like how

00:57:51.210 –> 00:58:00.210
A person who’s using a screen reader might might think about the information and I tried to like think of every web page is like what if this page was a

00:58:00.600 –> 00:58:12.840
Was a chapter in a book I try to think about it that way, right, in terms of how its laid out, and is it organized in in a logical way. So I don’t know. That’s how I how I think about it. Think about it.

00:58:13.530 –> 00:58:27.420
Agreed. And most people use h1, h2, h3 styling aspects to write once a designer encoder put it together and said, My H2 was you know 14 pixels high and bold.

00:58:27.900 –> 00:58:41.730
If I needed that anywhere on the page. I just use instead of using a prop like understanding code that there’s meaning behind it. Like there’s a reason like there’s like with a p tag needs paragraph and header ones means header. There’s also reasons like

00:58:42.780 –> 00:58:59.100
One reason why any HTML spec. They got rid of the be tag or the I tag for bold or analysis and change it with strong an emphasis is because you are emphasizing this word, there’s a meaning behind it be just is like

00:59:00.180 –> 00:59:05.130
Your style. So that’s why that should go into your CSS. Now if you want your

00:59:05.670 –> 00:59:14.190
You know, strong tag to be bold, you can make it bold, but then you don’t have to, but then SEO is also abuse that by like taking H A H ones and making them look like normal text.

00:59:14.610 –> 00:59:25.110
Things like that. So, in a perfect world, I think H ones would mean everything. Not everything, but it would be just as strong as the title tag, but we’re not in a perfect world, because people like to be so.

00:59:25.500 –> 00:59:38.430
It’s just like a lot of things in SEO it’s trivial bullshit that we get like way bogged down by trivial stuff. And like we and then we miss this stuff that’s really impactful. It’s like floating right under our noses, you

00:59:39.210 –> 00:59:48.630
Know, totally agree, and I guess one of the last things I kind of had a chuckle with was Google kind of took a jab at mas

00:59:50.430 –> 00:59:54.150
Mas posted about like all their, their new ranking things and and

00:59:55.230 –> 00:59:58.620
JOHN MUELLER kind of poke down said, How are you getting that data.

00:59:59.760 –> 01:00:03.930
Because technically to scrape Google’s site is against their terms of service.

01:00:04.980 –> 01:00:14.220
Though I think everyone turns you know they turn up. They understand like, hey, by empowering SEOs makes Google more of the forefront and people focus on Google more

01:00:15.630 –> 01:00:21.810
But people make a lot of money off of scraping Google. Google makes a lot of money off of scraping people so

01:00:22.260 –> 01:00:29.580
Let’s, let’s be real, Google is the world’s biggest scraper of content like they got no room to talk. Get out of here.

01:00:30.150 –> 01:00:36.810
Well, agreed, we’re just, we’re just scraping their content and if it wasn’t for Google. If people scraping it like SEOs would have less metrics to go by.

01:00:37.830 –> 01:00:39.690
creating content Google would have

01:00:40.860 –> 01:00:48.720
Agreed. And I, and some people have the argument where you Google taking my content and posting it tends to be traffic which is then I can have ads and monetize off of that.

01:00:49.110 –> 01:00:58.740
Me scraping Google is has no benefit to Google, but I, I, I believe there’s a benefit. Like, I believe it puts a part of that industry. I mean, most, most that was able, a lot of ranking tools.

01:01:00.390 –> 01:01:03.510
Really just focused on Google, right, and that’s mostly because being is

01:01:05.010 –> 01:01:08.400
You know, even though they say 30% they’re like not 30%

01:01:10.230 –> 01:01:14.580
But in general, I thought it was interesting. And in general, I think SEOs not having

01:01:15.060 –> 01:01:23.340
And this goes back to like bright edge and everyone else, like we’ve kind of made a whole bunch of metrics when we’re not in our standard analytics packages. Yes, we get our

01:01:24.060 –> 01:01:33.600
Traffic and revenue and bounce rates and time on site, but like, to me, a lot of times when once they get to your site, like it was a few pages and stuff is all about your site.

01:01:33.930 –> 01:01:40.170
It’s just the getting the people to your site. Right. And that’s kind of part of the SEO to be the onsite stuff. I really feel is also a part of

01:01:40.560 –> 01:01:49.320
SEO is really Babel and everything right. So will that will in UX and code. And that’s why I think every other industry, kind of, because we also have negative people in our industry so

01:01:49.830 –> 01:01:51.240
They’ll look at us that way, but we’re

01:01:51.300 –> 01:01:58.140
generally want to make everything. Great. And that’s part of what I love about SEO, but part of that was also reporting. How do we report on all this stuff.

01:01:58.800 –> 01:02:11.130
And we found creative ways to get numbers and rankings was one of those where we, you know, if you’re if you’re not the first person who shows up, then you know if you’re if you’re on page 10 that matters. No one’s gonna ever see you so

01:02:12.990 –> 01:02:17.250
Cool, man. So is that all the news is that that all there is to think about this week.

01:02:17.640 –> 01:02:28.260
Yeah, I think it’s a good start there. I mean, and some of this isn’t brand new, but it’s one of those things where it’s the news is always gonna pop up Google’s always gonna say something and

01:02:29.400 –> 01:02:39.360
That’s the other thing I love about SEO. There’s always like some fun chatter online that you can, whether I partake in it or not. It’s a there’s always it’s always interesting times. So

01:02:39.870 –> 01:02:51.330
Yeah, and I think to kind of put a bow on this, this episode. Actually we this episode I didn’t expect to actually be that long. But we’ve had, I think, some really good discussion and

01:02:51.750 –> 01:02:54.810
Next week, it’s not just going to be me and Jeff. It’s going to be

01:02:55.170 –> 01:03:07.650
Me Jeff and Simon Cox and every week. It’s going to be me, Jeff and either one or sometimes two people. And I think what’s going to happen is it’s just going to be a great discussion on and honestly

01:03:08.010 –> 01:03:24.510
I got tired of hearing my own my own voice. So, so it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be awesome. We’re looking forward to it. We’ve got a lot of great stuff lined up. And here’s two years to season two, it’s, it’s coming like a freight train or the little engine that could one of the two

01:03:27.210 –> 01:03:35.700
Now, yeah, it’s gonna it’s gonna be a good time. I’m, I’m excited to be here and I think I’m excited to meet a whole bunch of new people and talk to them because

01:03:36.180 –> 01:03:48.720
Talking to people through Twitter or talking to people, you know, through whatever social media platform is not the same. And sort of like, you don’t get to go get out to a bunch of conferences or nor do I like push a ton for that.

01:03:50.130 –> 01:04:00.540
There’s some that I would love to be able to get to. But this is this is a great way to just have to sit down and one on ones and you’re not just like pull somebody apart like suicide at a conference like we get to spend some time, which is great.

01:04:00.960 –> 01:04:09.030
Yeah, we get to meet people for the first time and everybody gets to watch and listen. Yeah, this is awesome. Yes.

01:04:09.660 –> 01:04:11.190
It’s like a like a

01:04:11.460 –> 01:04:22.470
Third person view on pulling somebody aside at a conference and talking. So we’re doing all right so everybody have a good actually. This, this episode is going to come out on Monday.

01:04:23.100 –> 01:04:30.750
Even though we’re recording on Fridays. So everybody have a good work week and look for next week’s episode. Yeah.

01:04:30.840 –> 01:04:32.670
Monday is my favorite day. Yep.

01:04:34.020 –> 01:04:35.910
All right, bye everybody.


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